Bedouine | Interview with Lyndsey Parker (LPTV)

Hey, I'm Lindsay Parker here at Licorice Pizza Records for LPTV. I'm here with Ozn Caucasian.

Yeah.

Also known to your fans as Bedwin, singularly like Madonna or Sher.

Well, I love that. [laughter]

I think it fits. And those fans and myself among them are really excited because Neon Summer Skin, your new album is about to come out and it's your first album in about five years, right?

Yep.

Which is crazy. Do you don't normally take such long gaps between albums?

I know. A lot of life has happened since my last record and a lot of pandemic, too. It's just Yeah, just a lot of rebuilding and it took time and so it's been a while.

Well, yes, there's, you know, you set that question up perfectly for me. A lot has happened since 2021. A lot of life and that's what this whole record's about. So, you took this trip to Saudi Arabia to see your family and I know you've lived all over the world and we can get into that. You live in LA now, but you uh grew up in Saudi Arabia for till you're about 10, am I right?

That's right. That's exactly right.

And so I don't know how often you'd gone back or or whatever, but the whole theme of childhood and revisiting your childhood and and the pain that can come with that is what this record's kind of at all about, right? So um tell me about this trip and how and why it inspired you.

Well, I didn't expect to visit my parents so much in Saudi Arabia when they moved back from the States, but unexpectedly I started to tour Europe like every year or so. And every time I

toured Europe, I tried to stay behind

and tag on a visit to them. And so it became kind of like a regular um like thing. I would I would go see them and spend more time on my old stomping grounds than I ever expected to as an adult and like rekindled this relationship with the place I grew up, which I already had such a soft spot for because I'm such a nostalgic person to begin with. Um, and every time I like went back to visit my parents, I'd basically like revert to my childhood. My parents are very like they're just they're they're kind of old school doing like immigrant parents where they're like, you know, they're they're doing my laundry, they're bringing me lunch, they're like they just, you know, they're offended if you do your own laundry, you know, it's like and I'm fine with that. It I just, you know, I actually really like spending time with them. Um, and and so I felt at a huge loss when I came

back and uh the I like it slowly dawned on me that it might have been my last visit because my dad was going to retire and they would no longer be living there because the the way that Saudi Arabia is like he was essentially on like a decadesl long work visa. Um because even if you were born there like my two brothers are, you don't get citizenship. Um and and so really my dad didn't even

I don't know that he would have but he really didn't even have the option to stay there like when he was going to retire

cuz he's from Syria.

Yeah. He was born in Syri both of my parents were born in Syria and my dad was just like an immigrant worker. he took a job as an electrician in Saudi Arabia and stayed there um and kind of worked him his way up with this company and then we he was essentially given like room and board for his family at this like uh what was an American compound when we were living there and so we all grew up in this like really sheltered environment. Um and that's where I got to go back to cuz he was still working with that company. So when when he when it was coming time to retire, he was we were like kind of folding it all up like our whole everything, you know, the ch whole childhood. Uh and and I had really big feelings about that. And um it dawned on me that I might not ever go back because even though I have I'm really sentimental about those places, it's really like the people just as much as the places that make them what they are like so many places. And if they weren't there, I don't know really what my relationship to it would be.

So, I was feeling just I I was feeling a lot of things and really emotional about it and I I just thought that I better like sit down with this and try to understand what it is and unpack it. And so, that's when the songwriting started.

So, you've had this, like I said, you've been all over the world. So, let me see if I have it all right. So, you're of Syrian descent. You lived in Saudi Arabia till you were 10. When did you move there? Did you were you born in Saudi Arabia? I was only basically just born in Syria because my my parents had already established a life in Saudi Arabia. My two brothers had been born there. Um but all of their family was in Syria and Lebanon and they thought for for this birth maybe they'll relocate to Syria so they can actually like experience it with their extended family like my grandmothers and stuff. So we just kind of lived in Syria for a few months while I was born and a few months after. Um, and then we headed back to to Saudi Arabia. So I Yeah, I I I Syria was really just kind of a place to be born and be surrounded by extended family.

And then you mentioned where you grew up in Saudi Arabia and it was this American compound. It was like and I think you even might have gone to an American school. Yeah.

I'm not

I'd love to It seems like you had very obviously you eventually moved to America. We can get into that. But um it seems like you kind of had your foot in two different worlds, western and north.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I I feel like I was kind of primed for this experience cuz I it dawned on me also the other day that was like, you know, belonging to a diaspora, you always kind of feel in between. Mhm.

And then it dawned on me that like I was kind of primed for that, having had an American education in an Arabic country,

but in this time having an like, you know, Arabic background or like Western Asian background in an American country. And so it's always it's always been a blend. This is all I know. Mhm. There's a feeling, I mean, you've written about this in other albums as well, but in this one particular,

this idea of like displacement or not really having a home. I know that even though you were young when you left Saudi Arabia that it was,

you know, obviously you're still nostalgic for it, but that, you know, you were really sad about it. You're still maybe a little sad about it.

I think [laughter] I mean, not in a bad way. I'm just saying like, you know, you were really, that was your home. That was where

Absolutely. No, no, no. I I don't think it's bad to be sad. I I'm I'm fully believe in like leaning into your sadness and trying to understand it and not distracting yourself from those kinds of feelings. Um so I'm just laughing that like he's like, "No, you don't have to give me a disclaimer. I I I'm fully on board." Sure.

Yeah.

Didn't mean it like that.

No, no, no. I I'm okay with that. Um yeah, I that was like life shattering for me and like mostly what I've discussed in therapy. It's like leaving Saudi when I was 10 years old because like my world was literally turned upside down.

But your parents entered like they won the green card lottery. I don't know what the term is, but they basically got selected to come here. So they obviously wanted to come here.

Is so so my dad So my dad wanted actually he was trying to get us Canadian citizenship.

Aren't we all trying to get

Exactly. [laughter]

That's the green card lottery. try to get in.

Exactly. And um so he was trying to get

us there and there was like a few reasons that it he my my brother was approaching 9th grade and at that time that was the highest the American school went to

and

the American school that you were going to

we were in Saudi Arabia we were enrolled in and there was it was starting the politics were starting to get a little funny and we lived there for the Gulf War. Um, and I think he was just feeling like it's time to to get out. Um, and so

he couldn't get us Canadian citizenship and his friend uh just made an off-the cuff suggestion like why don't you try to get the American citizenship and he's like h I don't I don't want to go to America. That place is a business, not a country.

That's a kind of that's a lyric almost.

Yeah. I mean Yeah. like could you know

well especially now I would get it's especially that right

exactly I mean that was I thought that was a really profound um thing to hear as an adult and um and so his friend was

like just just try you won't get it anyway just you know and he did and we did and I mean thank god we did I'm I'm I'm very grateful for it um but we we

made our way to America like after going through this really uh rigorous process and vetting and all this stuff. Um and ended up moving when I was 10.

So once you were in um even in the US though, you didn't stay put. I know you've I mean you live in Los Angeles now, but I know I believe you've lived in Texas, Georgia,

Boston,

Kentucky.

Yep.

Um maybe some others I don't know, but you've definitely lived in very different parts of the US cuz No, the US is like a bunch of little countries. I mean there's a huge difference between all those places. So

did you ever feel like when I'm talking about the displacement thing, it's hard for kids

of any age between age, middle school age to feel like they fit in?

Yeah.

And it feels like whether you were going to an American school in Saudi Arabia or coming here on the green card lottery when you didn't want like did you ever feel like are you still searching for a sense of home? Did making this record maybe make you get there? I think that my initial move from Saudi Arabia was so jarring that I was like, well, now it doesn't matter where I go. So, it it gave me a sense of freedom in that like, okay, well, that nothing's going to be worse than that, so may as well just have fun with this. And so, I just kind of like went where, you know, life was taking me. And I kind of used school as a way to bounce around, go, you know, follow where I could get like scholarships or grants and things like that and have fun with it while I discovered what I wanted to um study.

Um, and so that's what I was doing was just kind of like pulling threads and trying to figure out where to where to go. And this is the longest I've stayed put since then. And I think I'm going on like m

15 years now in LA.

You're a native now?

Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I don't know. I mean,

I definitely have slowed down, you know. I I'm not like I was in my 20s or early 30s where I was kind of restless and wanted to stay on light on my feet. I I do a sense of home is really important to me like um and it it's not maybe as heavy as it was before but like a place to be comfortable or like you know hang your hat for a while and um yeah I

I don't but I don't think I would be as attached to any place like I was to Saudi. So it it's in a sense liberating.

When you're talking about um sort of figuring out what you were going to do or go to school, whatever. I found it really interesting and surprising that you didn't really start playing music or writing music to you were about college age.

And relative, it's still young, but relatively late in life when you started, obviously you were doing stuff behind the scenes in like film and and video game stuff, but in terms of being Bedawin and releasing solo music, you were in your 30s, I think, when you first I was 32 for the first record

which is yeah relatively late in life to start. I will say Cindy Loer's first record came out when she was 30 and Cheryl Crow was 30

and Leonard Cohen's a little different for men sometimes I mean but it's still men or or women it's still not the norm for someone

especially nowadays.

So I'm curious about why you were I guess a late bloomer to music. I never once expected for this to be realistic like a realistic like uh ambition. Um and so it I wasn't like actively pursuing it but I was I feel like in the back of my head I always thought like if the opportunity ever presents itself I want to be prepared. So you know how they say like luck is like opportunity presents or meets preparation or something. So, I just I always kind of like wrote and played and just kind of

did this thing for myself and thought, well, if I ever meet someone that wanted to put my record out or something like that, I would have something to share. And and in the meantime, this is just like how I express myself, which I think is very important. I think everyone should figure out how they express themselves so they don't bottle up their feelings and and things like that. Um, but no, I moved here to to be in post-production. So, I studied sound design, uh, like sound editing essentially for film and TV. And I moved here for an internship actually just down the street. So, I'd come to Studio City every day. And um I was doing that, got my hours to get into the union and then started I pivoted to like music editing for film and I was just getting my footing there when I met someone that like wanted to put my record out. And so yeah, I I I think it was a very very gradual um development.

So I wonder if the sort of gradual development did it have anything to do I've read that like your first introduction to playing music was strict piano lessons or very militant piano lessons which a lot of kids have.

Um but it kind of soured you on music or playing music.

Well when your mom like forces you to do something it's like a very easy like thing to rebel against, right? You're just like you know what how to do to get to them. So, she made it too obvious that, you know, that's what she wanted me to do. Um, if she had played it cool a little bit, I probably would not have quit. And I wish I didn't, but she had me practicing piano so uh strictly that

when we did make the move to Saudi Arabia, I was so just like emotionally wounded that I was like, "This is how I get them back. I'm going to quit the piano. I'm not going to continue my piano education." Boy, did I show them. Um [laughter] um yeah. So that's that's kind of was like the reaction I had.

So I have to ask about the last song on on Summer Skin. Well, there it's there's two versions of Canopies on the album, but the last one is a instrumental

piano version.

Exactly.

Like was that the first time like what brought you back to piano? Was there some kind of full circle like meaningfulness to doing ending especially since it ends the album?

Yeah, that's that's a really good observation. I mean, the there was a couple things that went into it. Um, or a couple of thoughts. And first of all, sonically, I just wanted to do something a little bit differently. And it occurred to me that like my first instrument was piano and I hadn't really been writing on it. I'd never really written on it and so it felt like a good way to shake things up. At this point, I'd only really been writing on the guitar. And I, you know, I don't really consider myself a guitar player. I don't really know what I'm do. I, you know, I just, I go by feel, and I'm f, you know, I'm fine with that. I, I was actually kind of protective about it. I like didn't want to learn what I was doing cuz I wanted to just like, you know, feel my way around the neck and and do what felt good um without overthinking it. Um, and with piano, I thought, well, I don't actually know how I'll write and maybe the songs will sound really different. And I and I think they did end up like very different for that reason. And I just wanted it something that might take a little bit more space and be like really skeletal because the way I play guitar is fingerpicking, which is kind of became, you know, became this kind of like skeletal backbone and the way I would sing to the to songs that I wrote on piano would be like very hushed and stuff. And I wanted to shake that up a bit because I wanted to feel like know what it what it would feel like to play an instrument that took up a little bit more space and uh what it would do to my like you know topline writing or singing and you know so some of that was just like a sonic curiosity. Um, and then otherwise I did there was like an emotional meaning to it too like you mentioned like returning back to my first instrument, the relationship, you know, that that alludes to with my mom. Um, and then just like, you know, the coming of age of it all and just it kind of felt like a really nice nod um, and like a ribbon to tie the whole record with. And and I didn't play that part. my friend Drew Ericson, who's a really beautiful pianist, player.

How do I know that name?

He's done a lot of really cool stuff. He's

um Yeah, he's on a bunch of records.

I think uh he the last like Lana Del Rey

record he helped produce and stuff, so you've probably seen his name pop up. Um, but he's a beautiful piano player, beautiful feel. And I wrote the I wrote

Canopies on guitar, but I was really curious to hear it on piano. And I just don't really have I I learn piano classically. And so I think for that reason maybe don't have that kind of like, you know, that kind of confidence to just like improvise on it. um whereas Drew has the opposite experience with piano and so uh I asked him to take a stab at it and he just came up with this really beautiful piece and and I just knew that that's how the record would end.

I want to ask about the other version of Canopies the one because that's kind of I think a real centerpiece of the record the story behind it. So you're you interviewed I guess uh for lack of you had a a recorded conversation with your mom. I think she was still I don't know if she's back in America, but I think you went to Texas.

Yeah, she was living in Texas. My brother lives in Texas. Uh we actually went to high school in Houston and then my brother stayed there behind stayed behind while my parents moved back to Saudi Arabia and took their old job and went back to the old place. Um

they are they back in America now?

They're not. Now they're retired in Armenia, but my brother stayed there, had a baby. So that was kind of like became our new like meeting up place so that they can like see their grand their first grandkid. And so I would meet them there. So one of these trips is when like we were just running an errand going to get some food or something and I caught myself asking her like, you know, the same kind of questions I I I did about her past or upbringing. And um I just thought I better I should just record this because um you know I I I

want to just like remember the details and I'm not so good at that to begin with and um you you you get to an age where you're also just more aware of their your parents' mortality and I I it felt like like a something important I should have and um yeah

so she tells the story I mean I'll let you say but like she had some pretty traumatic stuff happen in her in her childhood and I I'm wondering because sometimes like you'll talk to a parent or a grandparent and they'll start telling you something about their childhood and you're like I never knew this. Yeah. Or I didn't know all of it.

Like how am I just finding this out now that you went through this? So how much did you know about her story? She was in an orphanage and I'll let you tell the story, but how much did you know about that when you had this conversation that ended up being part of Canopies?

I I vaguely knew that she was put in an orphanage. Um, so in Lebanon when you're

age seven, your your your mom your custody defaults to your mother until you're seven. And after that, like the the father has some rights to basically just kind of pluck them out of their household. And my mom's dad uh was abusive and her mom was trying to protect him her from him. And so she decided the safest place to put her was in this orphanage in um Lebanon. So they fled Syria and she put her there and she stayed close by and it was like the ultimate sacrifice she made for her own safety and she stayed close by at a like a relative's house and would visit her during like visiting hours or whatever like weekly or so.

Yeah. And um so I kind of vaguely knew because um when we visited Syria as a kid every year, we'd also like sometimes take this overnight bus to Lebanon and my mom would like go visit the orphanage um and like sometimes donate it to it when she could and stuff. Um and so I had been there, but I I think I was too young to like really appreciate the gravity of it. Um, so this felt like the first time I was like really really hearing it. And then also just like she opened up in ways I didn't she hadn't before and shared details with me that she hadn't before and those really struck me and that's what inspired the song.

What were if you don't mind sharing what details were the ones that struck you or that you didn't know that surprised you?

Um, so namely it was really that that that phrase that her mom would say. She said that she would like sit at this balcony nearby and say something like translated to uh you know the waves of

Beirut flutter so that you and like blow

my daughter's scent to me like her essence to me and she would like sit there and just like take in the air and you know and just think of her daughter and I was and and it it was like she says it in Armenian on that recording And it's it just sounds so beautiful and so poetic that I knew at some point that

I would have to like build a song around that and it eventually became um basically like the the heart of that song and I built around it. Um what does she think of the song or how did she feel about the fact that you wanted to put her actual voice on the song? Um, my parents are they're so subtle and they're they're just like they're I imagine a lot of musicians parents like this. They're just like not ever sure what we're up to. [laughter] They don't really get it.

They don't really get it. Like

you win a Grammy and they're like, "Oh, good for you." Like, "Oh, that's sweet." [laughter] I think that like I I was fortunate enough to like have a debut on like TV performance with my first record on Seth Myers show. And that was like maybe the first time they were like, "Oh, okay." Um, and so, but I think

still relatively like unclear, which I don't blame them. I hardly know what I'm doing half the time, but um, but yeah, I think they have a very like supportive like, "Oh, that's sweet." attitude about it. Um, and so

I I think I think she's delighted at it. And um but you know it's like getting

it's like pulling teeth getting them to talk about themselves. I don't know. It's like this immigrant survivalist thing where you have to like really it's it takes some pulling to like get at some some heavier stuff. Yeah. That's why I was asking if um I guess I source said like with parents where you won't even know that they had some terrible thing happen or or heavy thing happen to them because there is I guess yes it's boomers or whatever but they have this

or maybe the silent generation but they have this uh yeah this suck it up mentality. Oh, it wasn't so bad. Yeah. Was it in a soup kitchen with you know shoes but it was fine. Yeah. No whoop.

Yeah. But were they It's cool that they're supportive even if they don't quite grasp what you're doing. But you know, when you initially wanted to go into music, whether it was behind the scenes or in front of the scenes, were they like cool about it? Because a lot of parents of of any background would be like, "That's not a stable career. You're not going to make money doing that. You should go to law school or you should get married to a rich man or you should become a doctor or you should become an accountant or literally anything else."

Yeah. bet an artist. So, like were they cool about it? There's like a little bit of that. They're like, "What are you doing? Does it does it pay?" And like, "Okay." Well, I think there's like a there was a certain amount of trust involved and like because they did see me get my degree and so like maybe that was just enough for them even though they actually my dad didn't even push college. He doesn't even I mean my parents didn't even go to high school.

there's a they were like working as kids, you know, and so I don't know. They they definitely like want the best for me and want stability for me, but I think that they they were also dealing with so much of a culture shock moving to America that, you know, they were still learning English. And so I think maybe part of them was just trusting that like we would find our way. Um so yeah. Is um the song always on time sort of about that about the um cultural or generation gap between always

what you're doing what they did with their lives? I mean I I think of Always on Time more about like personal milestones or like um starting a family and feeling like you're behind in general or like feeling like you should be further along and the tendency to compare yourself to other people and just a like reminder that like there's no right or wrong way. It was a reminder to myself at least that there's no right or wrong way to do go about anything and that like you can only really compare yourself to yourself and and um yeah it was just kind of a cathartic thing to write. You mentioned about how you were like I'll show them I'll stop playing piano. Is that like the song Na Na Na is sort of that again univer if I'm reading the lyrics correctly or interpreting the song correctly is about that sort of rebellious thing like I when I was a kid like if I went to a party I would ask my mom to drop me off like two blocks away you know so I wouldn't be seen with my mom and she'd be like did your did your other friends hatch from eggs? Like why are you like embarrassed that you have a mom? like, "Oh, just tell me." And and you know, and I could not wait to move out like as soon as I was 18 or as soon as I could, but then like a lot of kids and you're like, "Why was I such a I'm not saying you were a dick, but why was I such a dick?

I was a dick."

Or like, "Why was I so, you know, cuz now you appreciate things."

Yes. Um, so I I probably put a bunch of words in your It's a very relatable song no matter where you grew up or how, but I'd love to get your take on

um on what that song's about and how like maybe your trip home inspired you to sort of

reassess how you were as a teen or whatever.

Yeah. To me, Na Na is more kind of about like when you don't know what to do, just do something. There's like I feel like there's a proverb maybe like an Arabic proverb that my mom told me about is like when you don't know what to do just do something. And so I I think of that as like teasing out that idea that like you know you you find your way or you carve a path this way and maybe you're not going quite the direction you want. So then you kind of like recorrect and do this and and um you know giving and taking and just kind of like figuring it out as you go. Um but also that song was a lot about just like trying to do something sonically fun. Um and just like have fun with percussion and things like that. How I assume your family [clears throat] has heard this record. Have they heard this record?

Actually no I don't think they've heard this whole record. I was just going to say what do they think of it just in general all the themes and it they haven't heard it yet?

No, I No, they've heard the singles. Actually, my mom's heard the the song in Armenian cuz she asked me like, "Have you been writing in Armenian again?" Cuz she was like kind of tickled by that cuz I have one other song in Armenian.

Has she heard Caterpies?

Yes. Yes. And I actually the it occurred to me so Always on Time

the second single I made a music video that kind of alludes to canopies uh by having a locket um like the the the focal point of this video is like this locket that I lose like the photos that are supposed to go inside of it and the photos are my mom and her mom and so it kind of alludes to canopies and Um,

and I watched the the morning that the video came out. I video chat with her just like catching up and she said, you know, I saw you have a a new video out. I'm going to watch it as soon as we get off the phone. I was like, you know what?

Can you watch it while I'm on the phone with you? Cuz like it occurred to me way later that like as as we were discussing it, like, oh, maybe she would get a kick out of this. That's how subtle they are. They're just kind of like anything you do, they're just like, "Oh, that's sweet. Oh, that's nice. Oh, oh, you're going on TV. That's that's nice. That's cute."

Um, so it occurred to me that I actually might like have some weight to it, you know, for her.

And I even like recorded a video of her, like a screenshot video of her like watching it, and I saw it affect her. And um, and that's a pretty rare moment. So, so yeah, like I said, it it doesn't always occur to me to like share things with them.

You weren't sharing it cuz you were like

afraid it would be too heavy or they wouldn't like it or it was it was a lot to unpack. It was nothing like that.

No, they can they can handle it. They they can Yeah, there's just so they're just so like unaffected in general. They're just they're supportive, but they're just kind of like,

you know, anything I tell them, they're just like, "Oh, that's nice." I feel like you need to go on another like late night talk show or TV show and have your mom like perform with you.

Yeah, I'm taking invites. So,

be cool. It would be really cute actually. I mean, I could see it happening. Then she would know.

I'd love to involve her. Like, I would love to do something like having like a little cooking segment where she like teaches us her dishes and and like, you know, from Armenian dishes or whatever it is. I'd love to involve her. It's been really fun so far. And actually, she's making some merch for me. So, cuz she loves to crochet. So, she's like crocheting like these coasters and these scrunchies and stuff. So,

I could use a scrunchie.

Well, I'll have one ready.

I want a scrunchie at your mom. That's so cool.

Yeah, that's really that's really wholesome.

Yeah, I I've actually had a lot of fun with it. I mean, even if they don't quite get the magnitude of of your success, it's nice that they're supportive because I there maybe some uh children of immigrants or children where there's like a big cultural gap or generation gap who

absolutely wouldn't get it or not be okay with it. They'd still be like, "When are you going to h get serious about your life?" or whatever. And you haven't had that experience, which is from what from what it seems. So,

yeah,

that's cool. Tell me about the song.

It's in Armenian that you just mentioned.

Track eight, I believe.

Yeah.

I didn't want to say it cuz I was afraid I would say

No, that's okay. I'll say it for you. Um, yeah, it's a track about the I guess like you could say the resilience of immigrants and coming to terms with the

fact that like you might not not find the place, you not might not like find a place to call

home in the same way, but you just you

just accept it and um and keep keep moving, you know, And there's like a little bit of cognitive dissonance between like the tone of the track and the lyrics of the track. And I think that rub is very intentional. And also the placement in the record, it being like right after my mom's interview uh or the the little tag at the end of Canopies where it's just kind of like that's life. What do you do? That's life. You know, we're doing our best. was doing a song with that kind of theme or or this album in general. Is any of it in any way even slightly inspired by what's going on in our country right now with immigrants with ICE or anything like that? I mean, obviously anyone who's a child of immigrants or an immigrant themselves or just I mean just anyone with like a heart is got to be a you know what's going on. You know,

I think it's really difficult to separate the two. I I feel like there's like some awkward shapeshifting that happens when you like don't have any reflection on what's happening in the world. But I will say that this is um this album was so deeply personal and I think it's like easy to apply it to to things that are happening right now because how much has changed really I don't know but um but it's really deeply personal and so I didn't I wasn't quite thinking about things like that and also it was written like years ago.

Um so

like be like how how many years ago? like a like a I don't know maybe like three years ago. I've been sitting on it for a while. So

So while Biden was in office.

Yeah. Yeah. And so um so it's not super

topical but um but I still think it applies. Absolutely.

I mean I think it's great. Not great. Great great like what's happening in the world is terrible. What's happening with ice is terrible. But like I think it's good timing that a song like that with that kind of perspective is coming out now. even if it was just coincidental or whatever.

For sure. And and I think those things they don't expire sadly. It's like they seem to be cyclical or something.

Unfortunately. Yes. That's not um the first song you've done in Armenian, but I I mean obviously you primarily sing in English, but how many other Armenian language songs have you done in the past?

Only one other.

Oh, just the one other.

Just the one other called Luis, which is a similar subject matter as well. And um I didn't expect to do another one that felt like this, you know, it kind of feels like the cousin to this song. Now, I don't cla to be an expert in this at all. So, but I it does seem that a lot of um Armenian or or Armenian American artists who do primarily sing in English system down being like the most high-profile one they don't they tend to do like Armenian songs like cover songs in concert but they don't tend to do a lot recordings of them.

Do you ever cover uh classic songs? I don't, but I would love to actually. And that's something I thought about doing, like having an album albums worth of older Armenian songs. So, I I hope that's something I actually get to do, but I haven't done it. And the singing is quite different. So, it would be a a very like different challenge.

How is it different? How is it challenge?

Just the um like the the the kind of like vamping that that goes on in like the vocal lines and stuff. Um, it's just very different muscularly and so it would take some practice, but I'm down.

I'm down to try. The songs are beautiful. Now,

I read this in another interview of yours, so again, correct me if I'm wording things wrong, but I did read in an interview um that you specifically speaking the um Western Armenian dialect. and that even though LA has the biggest um Armenian population outside of of course Armenia itself in the world that that dialect has

has been an obstacle for you here.

Yeah, for sure. And in Armenia where my parents have now so I don't know like with the differences of dialects. I I'm curious about that. Yeah, it's very different and sometimes it's like um it

it's there's a language barrier really like when you come across someone that's assumes that you're Armenian because you know my name is very Armenian. Um and so when they like try to open up a conversation there's like a little bit of like kind of hanging on for dear life and then you kind of like I don't really understand. and I, you know, I I'm from this place and there's a little bit of like shaming that'll happen sometimes.

Is there a stigma or anything if you're not if you're speaking that dialect as opposed to

I have experienced it. Yeah. Which is like frustrating cuz like we've had very different trajectories, Western Armenians and Eastern Armenians. Um, but we can both like celebrate Armenian, you know, genocide remembrance day, but like that's the reason our dialects are so so different. And um so yeah, I uh yeah,

it's it's a tricky one cuz there is the biggest population here, but I don't necessarily feel like um always feel connected to it. It's a different a very different culture.

I mean, I guess that sort of ties into a lot of the themes we're talking about with this record of just kind of never

neatly fitting into one place or one community or whatever.

Exactly. That's interesting. Mhm.

What kind of music did you grow up listening to? Cuz um you know, obviously you had a an Americanized upbringing with where you went to school and where you grew up and I believe you had access to MTV, but what what types of music uh from different countries around the world were you listening to?

I mean really it was like very Americanized my exposure to music because of the time difference. It's like we would come home and like watch, you know, The Simpsons and like the David Letterman show like and uh wake up to like MTV music videos and I would wake up early and have my little handle held tape recorder and tape like the music video sound and you know it was a lot of nirvana around then. And um then I would like you know go to school with my little tape recorder and play it back in recess and walk around the soccer field like a uh you know angsty teen teen um when I was just like nine or eight or nine. Um, so I feel like my exposure was actually very Americanized.

And I remember like also I think my first record was Boys to Men, uh, and like Mariah Care's Music Box and I had some Michael Jackson and I there, you know, whatever was on M MTV at the time. So, it's like a good mix.

It's a very good mix. But a lot of times people when they're reviewing your music or describing it, they always name check all these like 60s and 70s folk people. They say Jodyie Mitchell, they say Nick Drake or uh So did you were you into that too or were that? I wasn't at all. I didn't even I don't think I even know knew Nick Drake until after my first record. Was it

when people were saying you sounded like Nick Drake?

Yeah. And and I mean now he's like one of my favorite songwriters. Um and I I'm like consider it like an honor to be compared to that. But like I think the very first time I heard of Nick Drake was when we had recorded the record and I was talking to Trey Pard who was doing the strings who was referencing Riverman. He was like, "Do you feel like something like that?" Um, you know, and all like the close tones of and the colors of the of of that those kinds of strings. And I was like, "Oh, I'm not familiar with that." And I and I got familiar and I was like, "Oh my god, yes, absolutely. This let's do this um with the strings." Um, but no, that was like a way later uh development.

So, I'm very curious. Well, it's a two-part question. When your first when you first came on to the scene, it was like what, 2017?

Yep.

A lot. And there were all these reviews that were like with influences like Joanie Mitchell and they're completely assuming that right now I realize.

Mhm.

What was your reaction to that? And then the other part of that question would be how do you think that got that sound got in there? If you were raised on like Nirvana and Boys to Men and Mariah Carey, but you're sounding like these 60s and 70s folk people, how that happened? Well, so the folar question, how did you react when those comparisons started happening and and what's your explanation for how that came about?

Um, my reaction was just I don't know. I I you know, you just kind of like I felt kind of detached from it cuz like there was a lot of really great like positive feedback and I and I I just didn't really want to be feel too like reactive to it or affected by it cuz cuz

um I don't know for maybe for obvious reasons cuz it was like you know reviews will come and go like and also it's flattering to be compared to those people obviously. super flattering, but I I don't know that like I always heard the reference uh myself. So, I was just like, "Oh, okay. That's kind of their access point." Like, everyone does that. It's human, very human. Um I think probably my producer had a lot to do with it, Gus Ciphert. um and his like the the his method of recording which was on tape and keeping things pretty minimal and stoic and but also like I think the format just like the way that I gravitated to guitar was fingerpicking for some reason and so everything kind of had um inherently this very like

simple throwback folk thing to it like the um the landscape was that and So

maybe that's also why we kind of started from that place without needing to reference it very much.

Um, did you work with Gus and on tape for Neon Summer Skin? Did you still Is that

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So have you worked with him on all in that way on all the records?

Mo Yeah, most all of the songs. There's two songs that on this record that I did with Jonathan Rao um and the Lemon Twigs actually played some instruments on. Oh, nice.

Yeah, it was so so fun. I love them, too. Um, but otherwise, yeah, Gus and I have always worked together. How did you guys meet? I'm sure you've told the story before, but is he the one that sort of like encouraged you to do this path? Yeah, he was he's always been really, really supportive. Um, so when I was when I started working from home sound editing and I all of a sudden had more time on my hands and I started picking up the guitar more often. I started writing a lot and I got to a point where I was like, I better put this stuff away because it's going to get away from me if I don't. So, I was like doing more and more like voice memos on my phone. Um, and around this time I was listening to Syibble Buyers's record and she it was a 60s record and

of basically her on a nylon I believe it was a nylon string on like a realtore tape machine and I really like that idea

and um I wondered if there was a way to like put these songs away that I felt good about them being minimal and so like the like finding like some kind of tape machine or something that gave them just enough color so I wouldn't have to like dress him up too much. And I knew uh I knew of Gus. I didn't know him very well, but he was like the analog guy uh in Echo Park. And so I just likeounded him and asked if I could pick his brain and maybe borrow like the the this like task cam machine. And um and I finally like got over there and asked him a bunch of questions and he had this like small he was running this like small house in Echo Park which he essentially turned into a studio where you know there's like you know like pedals in the kitchen uh drawers and you know this is like there's no food anywhere but like there's like you know guitar pedals in the cabinets and and there's a amp in the bathroom and you know one [laughter] of those places. Um, and we were talking about it and I was telling him a little bit about my songs and stuff and and he asked if I could play them like front to back or I think I played him a song. Um, and he was like, "Oh, okay. Can you do that again?" All my, you know, all of his stuff was set up and we did a song called Solitary Daughter and we did two takes of it and he built the first take and that ended up on the record. And so the ve very the first song we did together ended up on the record and we just kind of had an understanding that we would continue to work together.

How many siblings do you have?

Two.

And they're both brothers.

So

in your family, how is it to be I don't know if you're are you the oldest or

I'm the youngest.

Okay. So what are the family dynamics of being the baby of the family and the only girl?

I mean I don't know any other way. So it's you know it is what it is. Uh but I

was I probably was like toughened up a bit um as a kid, you know, just like saw how they operated a little bit and um you know, maybe it calloused me a little. Uh but no, I don't know. I I think maybe I was a little bit um boyish growing up because of them, but I don't know. I don't I don't know any other way. So,

right. No, I mean there's so much about birth order. There's a lot of songs about being an oldest daughter. Like Taylor Swift has a song called Being an Oldest Daughter. We had a singer songwriter here named Gatlin. Her album is called The Oldest. There's something about like older daughter. I don't know what I'm the oldest daughter, so I don't know what it's And I don't have brothers either, so I don't know what it's like to be

the youngest. I feel like the youngest sometimes they get away with a little bit more

maybe cuz like the parents are like h

they're so exhausted by then. Yeah.

Yeah. God, I don't know how they did it, but they did it. I probably got away with, you know, I was my brother's gotten a lot more trouble than I did. So, I think like I probably didn't need to get away with much.

Just like quitting piano is all

it all worked out. Even that all worked out. Um, there's one last song I wanted to ask about on the album, which is called One Thing, Right, which we've talked a lot about family. And this whole album is about family and you have a great, you know, great relationship with your family. Um, and a unique relationship with your family, but that song is about chosen family

and that's a big thing particularly in LA. There's so many people who live here who were not born here, were not raised here, they do not have any family here.

When the holidays come around,

they they go to, you know, Friendsgiving or whatever. So tell me about that song. I wonder I was wondering if there was any kind of LA inspiration to it. Yeah, totally. And I think that it is, you know, when I do feel at a loss um with

my family or they just feel so far away, I think I just try to like remember that I have a few friends really close by that do feel like family and that we do have that in our control because um as close as I am to my family, not everyone has that relationship with them. And chosen family is just as important um if not more important to a lot of people. and and yeah, so I just I I thought that was is a bit of an outlier, but like I think still works

100%. So the last thing I'm going to ask is I'm quoting your press release.

Your press release says this album mourns the end of your childhood, which is a pretty that statement jumped out at me when I was reading that. So, how did you more and I guess they're like what what did you what kind of closure or understanding or processing uh that you maybe you didn't have before did you come to when you made this record and and listen especially now that it's about to be out there?

Yeah, I think just like working through it long enough to write all these songs was really cathartic. I think anytime you write something you get to like put away the feeling. It's like I I think a lot about um like you know seasonal clothing like putting your sweaters away like you're like okay that lives there now I can I don't have to think about this for a while. Um not that it's like gone completely but I think that there's something to compartmentalizing things like that and also like facing them long enough in order to do that you know like sifting through it. Um I'm a big believer in sitting down with your feelings and having them my stomach feel keeps growling. I apologize.

I'm not hearing it.

Okay. [clears throat] Fix it in post.

Yeah.

Do not worry. [laughter]

As in I'll eat a sandwich. Um yeah, so I I think that like um just sitting down with it was a huge help. I'm slightly less nostalgic than I used to be. But uh

interesting,

but still nostalgic. Um, but yeah, I think just like facing your feelings,

you know, nostalgia, I think nostalgia is a good thing as I'm a very nostalgic person myself, but not not in a way where you think everything was better. If you if you're like, "Oh, things were so much better." The good old days, whether you're talking about music from your childhood or any movies were better than clothes, like

I feel that's like a dangerous a sad way to be.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I don't think like everything was necessarily better than um I just feel like a kid. I just

and I and honestly it connects me more to my parents is like that, you know, that realization that everyone has at one point or another that their parents were just people, you know, and they maybe they felt like kids and maybe they still do cuz I just feel I always feel like a kid and um and maybe in a way that's like just connected me to everyone that

I think that's a good mindset to have.

Yeah. So, um, Neon Summer Skin is going to get a lot of acclaim. Everybody watching this needs to check it out. Um, I will see you and your mom on Is Seth Meyer still on TV?

Uh, yes.

Okay. We're going to see.

Yeah. Hopefully.

Hair will not be on by the time this ends, sadly. But we will see you and your mom hopefully doing Canopies on the Seth Meer show. I want to put that out there. I'm going to get the crochet scrunchie from [laughter] her. And just in all seriousness, thank you so much for coming here. It was really fascinating conversation.

Thank you so much for having me. You did a lot of homework. That's impressive. Really,

there was a lot to unpack. You did a It's been 5 years. I had to do my research, but thank you for saying that.

And thank you for being so open. And thanks everybody for watching. Thank you.