The Replacements Q&A with Peter Jesperson and Lyndsey Parker | Live at Licorice Pizza Records

Hello everybody.

Thanks for braving the rain even though it's not actually raining right now. I'm gonna do this because this is too tall for me. All right. Thanks for coming out. Thank you, Peter. Um,

my pleasure.

Should I formally introduce you? I wrote a whole spiel. I feel I'm Lindsay Parker, by the way. This is Peter Jesperson. Give this man a hand. This record wouldn't be out. We wouldn't all be here. I actually think the music in in general might be very different without you and without your involvement with the band. We're all here to celebrate. But I wrote Oh, a whole spiel. I've known this guy. I've known this guy for I mean, we worked together.

Yep. Starting in 1992.

I was 10 years old at the time.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, it wasn't 92. Oh, that's crazy. Um, yeah. And I was in awe of you then. And I also, shameless plug for myself and for you. You have a book called Euphoric Recall

and [snorts] I have like a one sentence mention in it which I was really um when you mentioned some of your favorite co-workers from back in the day. I made the list

that was you were probably edited out. I wrote about twice as much as this ended up being in the book. So you you probably

I mean no one read picked up that book to read about me. So that's totally fine. They they wanted to hear about all the cool stuff you've done including of course with the replacement. So I'm I'm going to read the spiel. Does anyone want to hear the spiel I wrote? and then we're going to just start talking about this. All right. So, you're probably the most passionate music fan I've ever met or worked with. Um, I'm proud to call you a friend, former co-orker, as I mentioned. I learned a lot from you. Uh, so this is Peter Jesperson. Obviously, in 1997, you co-founded the legendary Minneapolis label Twin Tone Records, which was home to Soul Asylum, many bands, uh, Babes and Toyland, The Jay-Hawks, The Suburbs, a lot of great, uh, Midwest bands, and of course, The Replacements. So, as uh the mythology has it, in 1980, you made the discovery that changed the course of your life, changed the course of alternative rock, indie rock, college rock, just rock in general. Uh when a a man named Paul Wester, was it Paul Westper? He walked into the record store you worked at.

Yep.

And he handed you a demo tape.

He did. And uh you went on to become I mean kind of I don't even know if you ever really had a title, but some people called you I read somewhere they called you the fifth replacement, but I guess I would say Slim Dunlap would be the fifth

babysitter. Okay. Babysitter, ANR rep, manager, producer, mentor, uh legal guardian to Tom Stinson for a while if I'm not mistaken. And four years after that moment where Paul hand you that tape, uh, The Replacements released what many consider to be, I don't know if you consider it to be their greatest work, but many critics consider it to be their greatest work, which is their third studio album, Let It Be. And I'm sure our conversation's going to go all over the place because you know so much and you've done so much. But like we'll mostly focus on this record which just came out as a deluxe uh 4 LP edition today with lots of unreleased goodies, studio recordings, outtakes, live recordings and um so yeah, let's just kind of start. I know you've spent about two years being involved with curating this project.

Yep, we started about uh it was would have been two years ago right about now. And um obviously all the replacements disography is amazing but you know a lot of rock scholars or critics or historians when they look at this record they look at it as the one where Paul Westerberg kind of came into his own as a songwriter or very rapidly matured as a singer songwriter. The band like very quickly evolved from you know their punk origins. So I'd love your insight into how that came to be. Was it like a conscious thing where they're like it's time to grow up or how'd that come to be?

I think it was a gradual thing. Uh I think you know Paul was a great songwriter right from the get-go from the first tape I got. I got a four song demo in uh the spring of 1980. Uh he

walked into the record store. I'd never met him before. Handed me a tape. uh when I listened to it uh it really was um you know for somebody I've done ANR all my life quote unquote talent scouting and uh I don't know that I ever had an experience quite like that. It was probably 20 30 seconds into the first song where I just felt like somebody put my finger in an electrical socket and um I actually stopped the tape and rewound it. Uh I was actually at a record store. I managed a record store in Minneapolis and I was listening to a bunch of demos that I had received uh while I was doing paperwork for the store and uh so I as the tape started I was probably slightly distracted. I thought time to put my pen down and just listen and so I I played the you know the first song all over again and it really my first reaction was that it sounded um to me like a kind of some kind of modern update on Chuck Barry with dirty dirty words. Um, and uh, not

that Chuck didn't have his share of dirty words at certain points, but uh, so yeah, so you know, we we I got the tape and I was so excited about it. It took me uh, a couple of days to calm down and make sure that my reaction was not uh, uh, that I hadn't overreacted. And uh, so I called a couple days later and and I remember uh, a female voice answering the phone. I I believe it was his mother uh, hands the phone to Paul. He says, "Hello, I identify myself. Uh, I'm the guy at the record store he gave the tape to. I really love the tape.

Were you thinking about doing an album or a single?" And there was a long pause and uh he said quote unquote, "You mean you think this [ __ ] is worth recording?" And um because at the same time as uh we had Twin Tone in motion, I was also DJing at a club where I had some sway with the booking agent and uh so uh a lot of people gave me tapes to try to get gigs at this club called The Longhorn. Turned out that that's why Paul brought me the tape was trying to get a gig. Um, but he got a gig and a record deal at the same time.

I think I've read that the first replacement skate was actually ironically a a sober club.

Uh, well the Yeah, they they'd never played a real bonafide rock club before we got together. Um, they played a couple places. They they were sort of taken under the wing of a band called the Dads who were uh a sober band back in the day. and the only sober people I knew to be honest. Uh, but they played this club, the Longhorn, quite a lot and and they were good guys and they were a good band. Um, but they had taken the replacements under their wing and they'd played places in the suburbs like, you know, kegggers and things like that and and house parties. So, uh, but they had gotten a gig in a sober club in downtown uh, Minneapolis at uh, in a church and that was actually supposed to be the first gig that I saw. And uh as I walked up to the I remember walking up the stairs to the church and there was this kid sitting uh near the top of the stairs um kind of looking dejected with his head hanging down. As I walked by he said, "Are you Pete?" And I said, "Yeah." And he said, "Well, I'm Chris.

I'm the drummer. We ain't going to play. We got kicked out." And I didn't know why initially. And then Paul walked out and I recognized him from the store. And he had uh Bob Stinson with him. And uh he introduced me to Bob and he said, "Yeah, they uh they found liquor and pills in our stuff." and uh they were not happy about it and and uh the guy had actually said I'll make sure you guys never play Minneapolis again which um of course didn't happen but so that was a

they were causing trouble from the start I guess.

Yeah. Yeah. But they uh you know it was it was a funny deal because I think they thought they'd blown an opportunity and I hate to admit it because it's not you know sobriety or lack of sobriety is not a anything to laugh about. But at the same time when I walked away I kind of chuckled and I thought well this is this is sort of humorous to me and they sure you know sure didn't uh scare me off.

Well, I mean, I think I've read that when you, you know, you obviously had such conviction about this ban, like you said, within the first 20, 30 seconds of hearing that tape, but a lot of people in the scene, you already very entrenched in the Minneapolis scene sort of were mocking or laughing at you like, "What are you doing with this this band with a 13-year-old bass player?" Like, they didn't take the replacement seriously. But you saw the potential that we later a lot of people think manifested itself on Let It Be like from the very start. uh you know I mean it was a it was a slow uh growing awareness of their talent I think uh but at the beginning I was just so knocked out with what I heard I thought this is certainly something to go after and certainly something to see what we could do. I didn't really necessarily think that I mean actually I'll tell you at one point I remember somebody uh giving me a hard time about how much I was uh blabbing about them and I I said uh you hang on for a second someday people are going to be writing books about these guys and uh it was probably you know inflated hyperbole in my part at the time but at the same time I think deep down I had a I had an inkling.

That's very cool. Obviously you How many books have there been about their replacements? not counting yours which is about them and other things.

Three or four you know kind of main

ones. It's pretty cool. So to we get to let it be which like I said is sort of a whole new level for the band and um at that time it over overlapped with you were road managing form

right. Well, that yeah um well before we went into the studio to start Let It Be, I had gotten an offer to do some road managing work for RM in between replacement states and um you know, RM had been playing Minneapolis for a couple years by then and they they really took the town by storm. I mean, we had at our record store, we probably went through, I'd say four or 500 of those hip tone singles, the Radio Free Europe record before they even signed to IRS. So first time they came to Minneapolis, they had almost 100 people and they didn't have that many people in a lot of the towns they were going to.

So they connected it with the record store being a large part of the reason there were so many people there. And then we got to be friendly and uh you know um Peter and I are very similar people. Uh and he ended up crashing on my couch many times and staying up till the sun came up listening to records because that's what we love to do. Um, and uh, so he offered me this uh, temporary road manager position and uh, I thought, well, this would be great to do, but I can't do it unless the replacements are cool with it cuz they're my priority obviously. And uh, so we had a meeting and uh, and uh, I explained the situation and they all said, "Hey, this is cool. You know, go ahead and do it." You know, I I had kind of explained it as um, you know, it might be something that would um, uh, they were a few rungs up the ladder from what the replacements were doing.

So maybe it would be an opportunity for me to kind of learn the ropes, you know, on uh uh and meet people that were in uh you know uh higher positions. And so I presented to the band that way and they said, "Yeah, we can do it." We had two roies that could take care of the band when I wasn't there uh on the road dates. And I still kept up with all the other management stuff and the, you know, advanced bookings for, you know, tours down the road and stuff. And um and then they kind of changed their tune. Um or Paul did. the other guys didn't really, but it was Paul who I think um you know I've uh looking back on it I think it was um he wanted to be number one and it hurt his feelings that I was paying attention to somebody else I think to some degree. So um uh anyway that so that made it a little tough there for a bit. Uh but what happened was the songs as you're saying um had started to advance at such a rapid rate and I recognized it and I thought Paul's having some kind of a breakthrough. This is uh he's gone up several levels here very quickly and I think he recognized that I recognized it and so that brought us back together I think and we were probably closer during the making of Let It Be than we had been even before.

And then Peter Brook was involved in this record. I don't know if it was an urban legend that he was at one point tapped to produce it. He didn't produce any, but he was involved. He did play guitar out there.

He did. He was never really on the bubble to produce. And we hadn't really talked about somebody from the outside coming in necessarily. Um, and he uh uh

I don't even know if he was really thinking he was going to produce. He just wanted to come and hang out for the recording session. So, um, that's why we put a guitar in his hand when Bob Stinson was having a little bit of trouble playing the right kind of solo. uh that every I mean Bob himself even didn't feel like he was nailing the right kind of solo. So it wasn't like uh Westerberg said, "Hey, you're out. Peter's in kind of thing. It was like Bob stepped aside and said, "Yeah, go ahead and let him try it." Peter did the solo. Uh and it was it was the right thing

and the rest was history. I actually have kind of a lightning round of songs I specifically want to ask about. Please feel free to volunteer any other songs you want to talk about. But obviously I wanted to ask about I will dare and you talked about the fact that um that Bob ended up not doing the solo and Peter did. But I've read that this was the song where cuz he Paul had that song I will dare for a while. It was supposed to maybe be on Hoot Nanny and he had called you and been like I've I've had a breakthrough. I've written the best song of my life or what was that all about?

Yeah. He called up as we were we had just finished Hoot Nanny and uh sent off the audio to the pressing plant and the uh package to the printer and uh a couple days later he called and said, "I've just written the best song I've ever written and we need to, you know, uh pull the record back and add it." And I just said, you know, we we couldn't do that. We'd have to um you know, it would cost a fortune to, you know, kill the project and it would delay it and and uh you know, we'd be, you know, uh it would slow the whole project down. So, um, he he was not happy about it, but, uh, you know, he understood, I think, deep down.

And, uh, so we, uh, we held it from the record, but it was, I think, the first thing we recorded when we started, uh, the recording of Let It Be. And we'd, um, I'd been out on the road with RM. Literally flew in from a gig at Six Flags in Georgia on a Friday night, took a redeye home, got a couple hours of sleep, and then jumped in the van and picked up the band and drove to the recording studio. So, um, uh, and then Peter flew in a couple days later. In fact, he I I I brought uh a couple of his guitars with me. Um which was also, you know, to add to my luggage. I'm trying to manage all this other stuff and I thought, "Oh man, I've got the Rickenbachers with me here and I I didn't want to see somebody uh you know, steal them or whatever." But anyway, um so so we started recording and I Will Dare um uh you know, came real fast because they had been doing it for close to a year by that time. And one of the interesting stories about it, I don't think we've talked about this uh too much in the other interviews we've done about this, but um uh at one point uh after Peter had done the guitar solo, Westerberg just said, you know, God, you know, it kind sound kind of cool if there was a mandolin on this. And um but he didn't seem real serious, but I kind of filed it away in the back of my head.

And then my brother, um older brother was in a bluegrass band. And so he had a mandolin player. I called him up and I said, "Any chance I can rent your mandolin?" And uh he the replacements didn't have the reputation they do now uh or did then. Um either either good or or for breaking things. Uh but um anyway, he trusted me with the thing. I gave him 10 bucks to borrow to rent the mandolin from him

and uh the next day we were Paul and I were going to the studio and uh I went to pick him up and he looked in the back seat and saw this little case and he said, "What's that?" And I said, "Well, it's a surprise for and he opened it up as we were driving and pulled it out and he was sitting in the riding shotgun picking up the mandolin and I don't know if he'd ever played one before.

So, um it was really uh it was really cool and he figured it out that part out real soon and uh real fast and and so that's how the mandolin ended up on there.

That's so cool. So, yeah, good thing that the person said yes when you asked to rent it.

That's right.

So, I said that Paul called you and said I've written my best song yet. When he eventually played it for you, what was your reaction? Were you like, "Oh, holy cow, you're right." Like, "This is a whole new level." Or did you agree with him?

I did. I mean, it was um probably I'm guessing he would have called me in February of ' 83. Um Hoot Nanny was out in April. Um so, it was around that time frame. Anyway, so a couple weeks after he had called me, we had a show at a place called Goofy's Upper Deck in downtown Minneapolis, which was mo mostly a hardcore bar, but the replacements were punky enough that they fit in, and we got booked there quite a lot. So, uh, I remember the set there being, you know, strong and and we had a good crowd and about, I don't know, seven, eight songs into this the show, uh, I heard them start a song that I didn't recognize, a quick strummed kind of bouncy, uh, intro and it kind of caught my ear cuz I knew their material so thoroughly and um, and uh, as as soon as the song kicked in, I I suddenly went, "This is the one he called me about." I mean, it sounded like a hit to me. It really did. And I don't really think that way usually uh and and especially with a band like the Replacements, but I thought, man, he's written the song. This could be the one.

So, I was very excited about it. And then they continued to do it a lot live and fine-tune it. And uh uh in fact, I think by the time we recorded started recording Let It Be, there were six songs that they'd been doing for uh along with I Will Dare for um uh five plus I Will Dare that they'd been doing for about a year. So by the time we started recording they were very welloiled and ready to go.

So another one I have to ask about I think it's a I mean it's kind of crazy how long ago this song was written. It's androgynous. Like androgynous I think is more meaningful or as topical if not more today than when it came out in ' 84. And um I mean Joan Jet had I just saw Joan Jet play. She always she's covered it on record. She always it's always in her set. Y

she did a version with Miley Cyrus and Laura Jane Grace, trans singer from Against Me. And it's been covered by Ezra Ferman, actually, also another trans singer. And you know, I just am very curious, first of all, what was the inspiration for? It's obviously a real positive take on a I guess what would now be called a gender neutral or gender queer couple. I don't know. Tell me if I'm wrong. Uh but what was the inspiration for and also the reaction to it at that time? Um, I I couldn't tell you what the inspiration was and I didn't ask him, but I know that when Paul first played it for me, he was very surprised by it and a little nervous about it and I was really surprised by it. He hadn't written anything like it.

And as as you know, from the beginning, you know, when I first met him, it was all rockers. Uh, you know, when I first met them, they all it was like they wanted to be Johnny Thunder's Heartbreakers. That was really their thing. First first show I ever saw him do, they did three Johnny Thunder songs. But, um,

do you remember which three? Hey, I'm sorry to interject, but I'm telling you to understand.

Uh, I want to be loved. Um, I think I think it was called Get Off the Phone.

Get Off the Phone.

And one other one, and I can't tell you the name of the other one.

You can't put your arm around a memory cuz I know Tommy is cover.

Not that, but

I'll just That's pretty cool. I didn't know that.

No problem. But um so you know when he started writing uh a little deeper songs um in particular um on the first album as we were you know we we had a whole pile of rockers to record but all of a sudden he uh we'd actually seen Johnny Thunders in Gang War uh the band he was in with um the gentleman from the MC5 and um he was really messed up and it was sad because he uh he apparently was uh didn't have enough of whatever substance it was that was keeping him up And uh he uh he he did not play well and and it was um yeah it was really kind of you know cuz we were excited to see him and he was kind of a hero and then you sort of saw him fall on his face a little bit and it was uh um yeah it was it was disturbing. Uh the next day I talked to Paul on the phone and we were just shooting the [ __ ] and I said, "So what have you been doing?" And he said, "Oh, I I wrote a new song." I said, "What's it called?" He said, "Johnny's going to die." So um at that time I didn't know what kind of song it was when he brought it into the studio. I mean it was it was uh it really stuck out kind of like androgynous did um because they hadn't written anything like it. It was the first ballad. So anyway, you know they does uh you know that on on Sorry Ma. We did a song called Go on Stink which was a little heavier and a little more um writerly I guess. And then uh Hoot Nanny had within Your Reach and uh Willpower and some of those things. Um, so by the time they got to androgynous, uh, even though there had been some outliers before, this one was a real outlier. Um, and I I

mean, I don't know how I how to explain it really, but it was um they weren't necessarily the um I mean it wasn't it wasn't a song that uh anybody saw coming, I guess, basically is what it was. and and um I mean it just kind of came out of nowhere and uh I think it was a very forwardthinking song and and certainly is getting a lot of attention now in this new package. So one of the things the first it was the first song we released uh in advance and uh we found another vocal that I didn't remember being there on the uh multitracks when we've done the reissues in 2008 all on CD. we didn't have a budget to remix things and go back to the 24 track uh tapes, but this time we did have a bigger budget. So, we were able to go back and pull all those songs apart and look for instruments and voices that weren't on uh the original uh that came out on the record. And when we found this other vocal, I was uh very excited.

I think in a way it's maybe my favorite, you know, song on the record because of this other vocal. Clearly not a master. Uh, and I think we picked the right one for the album, but it's one that's got a lot of emotion in it and, uh, I think it was very, very much worth putting in this package.

Do you Sorry, I'm sort of asking the question again, but was there any kind of weird reaction to it when it came out from Bros or whatever? I mean, it was a different It was a different time.

No, I don't remember any kind of bad reaction. I think people were were uh I think that people were kind of uh excited by, you know, the uh expansion of topic.

Yeah. Well, I love the fact that when um I'm sure you've seen Joan Jet do it, but she just did it at the forum and she didn't just do it. She did this whole speech before about how Paul Westerberg is one of her favorite songwriters and it was very cool. I do want to ask you about 16 Blue because I remember in your memoir you talk about obviously about the awkward age Tommy was at at that point.

Yep. Um that was uh that was a funny one because I remember that you know where that came from real specifically. We were on the road withm uh and we were in Boston and we had a day off and Westerberg said uh uh uh could you find a place for us to rehearse? And that was something he'd never asked me to do before. And I you I thought well sure of course what that's great. I'm glad they wanted to. And I didn't know why. Uh so I called up our uh friends from the Del Fueos said you know anybody who's got a practice you know space that we could use. He said sure you can use ours. So, we got the keys and uh loaded the gear in there for the afternoon and I took off to do some other stuff and came back and got them later and then we went to the Paradise in Boston where they were opening for the form and uh during soundcheck they did this new song and I thought, "Ah, that's what Paul wanted the rehearsal for. He's got a new tune and uh I remember walking around at soundcheck and hearing the words and um all of a sudden I went, "Holy [ __ ] he's written a song about Tommy."

How' Tommy react to that? I assume he knew. you know, we didn't really talk about it. I mean, I think it was one of those things. I mean, everybody kind of just were like, everybody kind of got it. That's what it was about, but but no, it wasn't something that was a big discussion point.

And then, um, I don't know, forgive me if I don't know if this is on the box set up, but I know a bside from that era was Hey, was Hey Goodlook. Is that on this box set?

Hey, Good looking was uh there was a live version on the flip of uh I will dare the 12-in. Um, we had two songs on the flip. Uh, 20th Century Boy by T-Rex and then the Hank Williams song. Uh, and yes, it is on this.

Okay, cool. Because there's a whole story that was a Alex Chilton connection, which obviously later they had a song called Alex Chilton, but there's a really funny story about there's like an a big star Easter egg on the original B side of

Right. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, that was funny because we had been in Madison, Wisconsin. There was a club there called Merlland's uh second floor room uh run by a husband and wife team who were really really good people and they loved the replacements from the second we first time we went there was opening for Huskeroo um and uh and and these uh two

people I should remember their names it's not coming to me right now but anyway uh they uh took shine to the replacements and booked them a lot so we went back and forth to Madison uh plenty it was about a 5-h hour drive from Minneapolis and I think um I've I've sort of uh you only half jokingly referred to it as the replacements Hamburg. I mean, that's really where Madison was where they cut their teeth because they were playing for people that didn't watch them uh, you know, go through all their growing pains. And um, great club, great PA. And so somebody, I guess maybe one of our roies had thrown a tape in that had been a mixtape we had in the van uh, and to record the show.

And, uh, and Hey, Good looking, I think, was the last song they did. Maybe it was an encore. Um, and so when we were and and and at the show, I mean, Bob Solo is just so ridiculous. It sounds like he's playing the wrong song. Uh, but we thought it was really funny. And um, so on the way home in the van, I mean, this is another crazy thing. We used to go to Madison, play a show. We didn't have money for hotels or anything, so we'd drive back afterwards, you know, leave Madison at 2 in the morning. I'd be dropping them off when the sun came up.

But anyway, as we're driving back, uh Westerberg, I think it was riding shotgun, and he kept uh playing the uh version of Hey, Good looking, playing the solo, and then rewinding it and playing the solo again and rewinding it and playing it again. And there was like this wrestling match in the van with Bob trying to get to the tape deck cuz he was going to chuck it out the window. So, it was like hog pile on Bob, keep him away from that tape. And the tape made it home, fortunately. And so when we decided to put it on the B side of this 12 in uh Steve Felstead, the engineer and I were transferring it from the cassette to uh a quarter inch reel.

And um right when the Hey, Good looking live had ended, the mixtape that was on it previously popped out and it was almost like it was meant to be. There was the beginning of track one, side one of the first Big Star album. It's the song Feel. So you hear this Da da da da da. And I thought that's so cool. Let's just put on a few seconds of it and fade it out and it'll be like you say a little Easter egg for because Big Star were everybody knows about Big Star now, but at the time they were not known at all. So it was our little tip of the hat. And uh and and interestingly enough, the next year meeting Alex Chilton, he said that was the first thing he ever heard by them.

He'd been driving from Memphis to New York uh and uh stopped at a friend's house in Baltimore to spend the night before he went up to the city and the guy said, "Hey, do you know about this band, The Replacements?" And Alice went, "Never heard of them." And he said, "Well, look what they've done here." And he played it for him. So that would have been his intro.

That's so cool. Yeah. What a what a great story. So we've mentioned that obviously the Replacements did cover. So I have to ask about Black Diamond because I this was 84 so or when you were making it was maybe even 83

early ' 84 but yeah

this was not this was before people were like ironically covering Kiss songs or ironically liking Kiss or unironically liking Kiss and just being like Kiss kickass. They might be cheesy but they have had a lot of great rock songs like that was ahead of the curve in that way.

So obviously Black Diamonds on this and uh also I think Jean Simmons might have seen them do this in concert once.

Yeah. He came to CB GB's and they and and um and we were uh I was at the sound board and the guy who was doing sound was a guy who actually had worked out here um at McCabes and stuff. Uh Robin uh Dinar, you know Robin Dinar, he's been around doing sound here for a long time. Great guy. Anyway, he was the sound guy at CBGB and um so he and I were at the soundboard and and it was a you know, it's actually a pretty not a great show. Um and uh uh the uh well,

Alex Chilton was opening up. It was the first time we met him and I think that uh the Replacements had a few extra cocktails cuz they were so excited and and it was a pretty messy show. And uh also they'd just been on the cover of the Village Voice. So, uh, and there were a lot of ANR guys in New York that were like, uh, who's this band we've never heard of who are on the cover of the Village Voice. So, it was packed with, uh,

this was a common story, right, where they had a big show and they would not be at their best, but then they'd be at some other show playing for like 10 people and it would be like the best show you ever saw in your life.

Yep. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. But uh but anyway, so uh while they were playing uh Robin kind of nudged me and he said uh there's a guy standing, you know, the club was packed. I mean, it was wall to- wall and there was a tall guy standing sort of to our right and he and he said, "You know who that is?" And I said, "No." He said, "Jean Simmons." And I of course I wouldn't

It must have been the year that his makeup came off. It came off in ' 83 on an MTV press conference, if you remember that. I wouldn't have recognized him with his makeup on, but uh but uh anyway, so I so I and there was a little talkback system uh at CBS's. Um a lot of clubs have it where you know there's a a little microphone on the board that you can uh talk to the band through the monitors. And so I when they finished a song, I hit the button and I said, "Paul Jean Simmons just walked in. No shit." And then and without missing a beat, they crashed into a really terrible version of Black Diamond,

which is not a Jean Simmons penned kiss song if I'm not mistaken. And I believe that's a Paul Stanley song. Do you think

that maybe they should have done, you know, a Jean song?

Well, I don't think they knew very many, but uh

but anyway, he turned and and and left very quickly.

He left.

He left. Yeah.

Oh, man.

But you're right about it. I mean, the the the non-ironic uh uh part of it um

because they also did rock and roll all night. And I remember seeing them do that at another club in New York where um there were, you know, a big crowd and and they didn't know whether this was if the replacements were making fun of it or whatever, but they just did such a great version of it that, you know, it didn't really matter. It was a great rock and roll song.

Yeah. I think now there are lots of people particularly in a a YouTube era or whatever cover people cover stuff all the time. And I also think now as cheesy or sometimes problematic as KISS can be, I don't think most people have any problem saying Kiss are great or were great or I love Kiss, but back then, especially this was around the time when they reinvent themselves as kind of like a no makeup hair metal band, like it was not cool.

Yeah.

To like K. It was a risk. You, you know, now if like a rock band starts playing a Black Diamond on stage, everyone be like, "Yeah." you know, but like the only bands that were probably doing that that early were like the Replacements and and Red Cross who always went against the grain of what was considered cool, you know,

could have been. And actually, we recorded four covers for during the Let It Be sessions, so we had to pick one. And we didn't, you know, we we didn't want to put two covers on, but we thought one would be fun. And um I think that the band was kind of leaning towards the T-Rex song because they did a great version of 20th Century Boy.

What were the other two, by the way? um grassroots uh Temptation Eyes and um

Heartbeat It's a Love Beat by the DeFranco family,

which is something Red Cross would do. I mean, whatever. Like it was before like maybe being into the 70s kit thing was like that was more of a 90s when that kind of came back.

Yep. Yep. But when we were kind of deciding, you know, what of all the tracks we recorded, what's going on the album, what order is it going to be and all that stuff, I was I'm a good sequencer, so I was kind of trying to put it together. And I had the T-Rex song Tempted in there. And then I started thinking. I thought, you know, this is kind of obvious, you know, to put a T-Rex cover on here. So I said, uh, when we had a little band chat about what, you know, what songs, you know, various members liked and what they didn't like, and I said, you know, I think it'd be cooler to put on the Kiss song because it would be so unexpected.

And so we ended up changing, you know, to that one. And I think it worked out really good and put it at the end of side one. And it was kind of in a good position for, you know, for the record, I thought.

Are all four covers on this deluxe edition?

They are.

Very cool. I would like to hear that heartbeat. I don't think I've ever heard that.

It's really good.

So, last song that I wanted to ask about on this record is I mean, I have to ask about Unsatisfied, which is like, you know, considered to be one of their greatest songs. Um, because you were you mentioning how Bob Stinson didn't do the solo on I Will Dare, but it was a complete opposite story with his guitar playing on this song. Uh yeah, he um yeah, he did a great guitar solo on this one and it was um that was one that that was a studio concoction really. I think Paul had written it, brought it to the band, taught it to him and they recorded it right away and I don't think we even did more than one version. We had one good backing track. He took a couple shots at the vocal. Um, but uh there was only one really good vocal. But the interesting thing about that one was um when we recorded it, it didn't have the acoustic guitar intro and we didn't use things like click tracks or anything.

So, uh, and there was no countin and so when all of a sudden Paul said he wanted to put a 12 string at the beginning, it was really difficult to record the 12 string and then line it up so it sounded like, you know, sounded right. Um but um

uh there was something else I was going to say about Unsatisfied. Oh, interesting thing about that. I remember after the record was out. Um we were driving through I remember somewhere down Kentucky or Tennessee uh on a two-lane road stopped to get gas. Uh there was a pay phone across the street. So while the van was gassing up, I ran across to call back to the office in Minneapolis to, you know, just check in. Uh any names for the guest list tonight? That kind of stuff. And uh Dave Ayers was a guy who was uh doing some ANR while I was away so much with the replacements. And Dave said, "Hey, we got a call from uh Debbie Miller, writer from Rolling Stone. She loves the album and they're going to review it, but she doesn't understand one lyric." And um she wanted to know if you could if if I could tell her what it was. I said, "I don't know, but I'll ask you know the band or Peter or whatever." So he said there's it's the line uh everything you dream of is right in front of you. but she couldn't figure out what he said right after that. So, I'm standing there in the pay phone booth and I'm looking across the street and there's, you know, the van getting gassed up and there's Westerberg standing a couple feet from the van smoking of course, you know, which is like good idea while the, you know, at the in front of the gas pumps.

But anyway, um, uh, so I shout across the street. I said, "Hey, Paul, uh, Rolling Stones reviewing the album. They don't understand this lyric. Uh, uh, everything you dream of is right in front of you. What do you say after that?" and he shouts, "Liberty is a lie from across the highway." And I I didn't know what that line was either and I thought that's a [ __ ] great line. So, I read it into the phone and Debbie Miller put it in her review.

Is that song Unsatisfied? Um, I have read that it's at least partially about uh Paul's frustration with where the band was at at that time in terms of some people might have thought that a band that had this reputation for being whatever difficult or inconsistent with their live shows didn't want success, didn't want to be famous or but I feel that he did or I don't tell me about like did that factor into the the song at all because I've read that.

Yeah. Well, again, I I mean, Paul and I didn't really there wasn't a lot of talk about like where did this song come from? What did you mean? What were you feeling, Paul? Those were not conversations we had. So, um but it was um it was a song that, uh I think, you know, I was shocked and I'm shocked to this day that it took them four albums before the major labels really got serious about coming after them. So I think if you're Paul Westerberg and you're writing Color Me Impressed and uh you know uh you know I will dare and and Unsatisfied and you're not getting the kind of attention that you think you should be getting. Um you're probably not very satisfied. So I'm sure that's part of it. But um but yeah, I I couldn't tell you really the origin of the feeling.

No worries. I mean obviously the replacements had got to a certain level of success a a type of success that many bands would be thrilled to have you know four books or about them you know they've been nominated for the rock and roll hall of fame not inducted yet but maybe someday

well that was all later though too you know

but at the now we look back and you know but you know uh obviously the critics loved them particularly with you know as you mentioned this Debbie Miller woman from Rolling Stone but like

did with the fact that the songwriting had elevated and the fact that that you know you had a song called I Will Dare which the first time you heard it you're like that's a hit and this was getting the acclaim. Did you guys think even in the back of your minds like this is the album? This is the one that's going to do it because then you know they did get signed to a major after this one. They did move to sire so I assume this record did attract attention of Seymour Stein or whoever but were you thinking like okay now things are going to happen?

I I don't know that that was really the way we thought. I think that um I think that everybody wanted to be more successful. Everybody wanted to have, you know, be making a better living or whatever, but uh the idea was just to make the best records we could and to do the best, you know, you know, and to tour as much as we could and and um you know, even though they did a lot of shows that were falling down drunk, I mean, they they didn't, you know, go out there on purpose to be do a shitty show. It was just kind of the luck of the draw. There's something cool about that in a way that um you know they couldn't fake it and u so on a night where you know the the chemistry wasn't there on stage um you know sometimes they'd maybe um flush it down the toilet a little bit and just be you know be goofy or or we you know we played a lot of places where there were you know big punk rock audiences and they'd they'd do everything uh country style you know just to piss them off and uh and this

did that piss you off sometimes like here you are this mad who's believed in him since the first 20 seconds of this demo tape and you're like we're whatever using that we're you know you just were on the cover of the Village Voice all these people here see you seen Jim and Jean Simmon not that you cared about that one but you know what I mean like this is a big show

and there are probably many other versions of that so like this is a big show and then they do not present themselves at their what you know they can do at their best. Well, if you got a bunch of people standing in front of you saying, "This is what we want. This is what we expect from you." They are the kind of band that's going to go the other way. I mean, it's just it's that's just the way they work. That's

But that didn't frustrate you as someone who

No, not really. I mean, I was frustrated when uh I was more frustrated when they just play played shows that sucked and uh and I knew that they were much better than that.

I guess that's what I was asking.

But, you know, there's I mean, I know you know like you know, you probably have the same experience. There's a lot of bands that, you know, we all see where, you know, they're they they they go out and they and they're great every night, like uh, you know, a Bruce Springsteen kind of thing. They give it their all every night. And, uh, you know, not everybody can do that. And so, in a way, I mean, I kind of admired them for for not, uh, playing the game in those ways.

But it has been brought up many times that if they had played the game more, and this goes beyond Let It Be. I mean it goes to like the bastards of young video which is of course now a classic but was them not playing the MTV game.

There are some people that were like guys if you just played the game a little bit more like all the world could have been your oyster. I don't know if that's something any of them or you have ever grappled with.

I'm sure everybody thinks about it but uh you know it would you know we might not be talking about them had they done that kind of thing if they had you know

the books would have been less interesting. I think of the eight records they made, Don't Tell us Soul is the one where they really did try to play the, you know, the radio game and and all that. And I think that's the their least interesting album. And I think it's got some real duds songs on it.

I mean, the singles on it. No, that's fair enough. I'm going to put you on the spot. This doesn't have to be just the air of Let It Be, but given the fact that they could, you never knew what you were going to get with them. What is, in your opinion, the best show you ever saw them do? And just for kicks, the worst.

Uh god. Um you know, there were a lot of shows that were um you know, the worst is is probably there's plenty of those. Um but also, you know, I mean, the thing is, you know, when I think about it, I mean, I saw them hundreds of times and uh they were they were great more than they were bad. Um, I I know, you know, like uh a musician I know, Joe Henry, who when I met him, he said uh he was a big Replacements fan and uh he saw them uh eight or 10 times and never saw them do a good show. And I thought, well, that's that's too bad. I'm sorry about that. But I'm glad you like the records, you know. Um

he gave them a lot of chances. But that, you know, I mean, I I I guess I remember um after the CB show where Jean Simmons turned up, uh the reason we had to play CBS was because we'd been booked in a bigger room about a week and a half later called Irving Plaza and that was a big deal at the time. Um and we'd done CBS a lot and did did really well there.

CBS was booked first and so when we got the Irving Plaza gig, Irving Plaza said, "Well, you have there's a no compete." uh so you you can't do this show and I said well what if we do the show you know under a fake name and they said that'll be okay so the replacements actually played as uh Gary and the Boners which wasn't really um all that much of a

people figured it out I see

and oddly enough Alex Chilton who was just coming out of retirement said well if they're going to play under a fake name I am too so he played as the deteriorating situations um but uh but uh so uh the replacements

uh I had to convince Hilly Crystal that look there's going to be a huge crowd. You're going to sell lots of liquor. Um can we do this under a fake name? And he and I got along really well. He'd never liked the replacements, but for some reason he and I always had a good relationship and he said, "Peter, I'll do this for you." So, we ended up a week and a half later um going to Irving Plaza and it was like they had something to prove because they knew they'd kind of done a, you know, pulled a bad show a couple week, you know, a week and a half before and they that that was they walked on stage and opened with uh Rock and Roll All Night

and Jean Simmons was not there

and they just and they just killed it and uh you know and that that was a a brilliant show all the way through. So, that would be one of the best. I thought the Irving Plaza shows were great.

There's also a club in Trenton, New Jersey, and there's a a bonus uh 10-in that comes with this package uh this new Let It Be package that has six songs from a recording in Trenton, New Jersey at a place called City Gardens. That was another one where the PA was so good, the monitors were so good, they could really hear themselves and they played their asses off every time they were there, I think. I mean, some drunk shows of course too, but

I mean, I think probably the bad shows um are the ones that people remember more because that was part of their their lore as you said.

Well, it became more of their lore and it is kind of a frustrating thing where, you know, people come up to, you know, a band member or me or whatever and say, "Uh, yeah, I remember seeing them in Tulsa and you were so drunk you couldn't play any of your own songs and that was so great." And it's like, well, that wasn't really why the Replacements were great. I mean to me but uh you know

so a couple obvious questions to ask about the lore is of course the title which some people maybe at the time let it be would think was blasphemous. It was also before the internet were having us an album called let it be would maybe be make the album be hard to find online or whatever but I do believe that it was at least partially inspired by you and your Beatles fandom to call it that.

I think it was needling me a little bit. Um, Westerberg used to say, you know, they're a great rock band, but they're not the be all and end all. And um,

the Beatles, that is.

Yeah. And I said, no, they are the be all and end all. And, and you are wrong. So, um, but um, but I think what happened was really was I think they probably were sitting at the CC Club, which was the bar Katy Corner from our record store where we all hung out all the time. And I think for some reason all of the previous records had about 20 titles before we decided on what the final one was. Um, but this one didn't.

I don't remember any titles floating around. And so Paul was maybe it's time to get a title. And he's sitting at the table with a couple of the band members and he said, "Okay, the next song that comes on the jukebox is going to be the album title." And there it was. The Beatles Let It Be.

Let it be.

Yeah.

Very cool. What What would have What was the next song that played?

Yeah. Good question. that'd be, you know, if it had skipped, who knows what we would be talking, what

and the thing, the one the other thing that I think was when we started making the next record, the first for sire right up until the last minute, it was going to be called Let It Bleed. And I thought that would have just been the coolest thing to have Let It Be and followed up with Let It Bleed. And then he just at the last minute he said, "No, I'm going to call the album Tim." And I was like, "Why?" And he said, "It's such a nice name."

And I was like, "Oh man, I think that's a missed opportunity. I think I know we're here talking about Let It Be, but I always assumed there was a real life Tim, like it was dedicated to someone.

There was a couple of Tims around at that time, probably a guy named Tim Carr who uh was a booker at the Walker Art Center in Minneapolis and and a friend of the band and and lived in the apartment building I lived in. So, they knew him as well. I always thought it could have been Tim, but I don't know. I never again I don't ask Paul those kind of questions.

Of course, I have to ask about the the famous cover photo. I know you weren't there at the shoot, but it's a really iconic photo on the Stinson family roof. And I think there were maybe some other options for alternate photos, but that was the one that made the cut.

Yeah, there's one on the posters that they have here. Um, this uh was another Coron picture. Um, this was really going to be the album cover for a long time. Um, not for a long time, but towards uh, you know, as we were putting the package together. But, um, I don't know. It was something about this uh this picture. Uh yeah, I wasn't I think I was working at the record store that day that they took the pictures just a couple blocks really from where that house is. Um and Dan Corgan uh we had done two photo shoots. one with Greg Helguson who did a lot of the early pictures and then Dan Corgan who was a brand new photographer at that time and um one of the guys that we worked with at at uh Twin Tone had said um uh you know you should maybe take some pictures at their practice space because that's uh you know where they really became a band and um and so Coran was shooting them there and then he said well let's go outside and then all of a sudden it just I don't even remember who brought it was I think it was his idea uh and they got up on the roof crawled through that's uh their uh Bob, their older sister Lonnie's bedroom window there and her baseball trophies in the window. Um so they crawled out the window and got on the roof and snapped those pictures and when we were looking at the contact sheets, this one just everybody just went, "Wow." And I mean, I love that picture, too. And I think that's one of the best Replacements pictures ever. Um but this really caught everybody's attention. And we used uh we had a great art director uh for most of the Replacements record uh records. His name was Bruce Allen.

Uh, and he was the lead guitar player of another Twin Tone band called The Suburbs. And he um and so when he uh framed this and tinted it blue and came up with the kind of red orange lettering and the sideways 'the' and the let it be kind of set down there over Paul's shoe. I mean, it was just I mean it was like there's your [ __ ] album cover right there.

Didn't Grant from Husker do some um graphic design for them?

He did the cover of Hoot Nanny as under the name Fakeame Graphics. How come he didn't use his real name?

Uh, I don't know. Just for the heck of it.

Why not? Why not?

Grant Grant was like that.

Another amazing Minneapolis fan.

Amazing guy.

And we got I got to work with Grant as well because um Nova Mop was on Restless Twin Tone,

right?

Very cool. So, I'm going to take some questions from you guys. I'm so glad we have such a nice turnout. It's so cool. Thank you for coming, especially when the weather wasn't great. Um, but you were saying that maybe now we all understand the replacements. Uh, that they're appreciated now. At the time when I was asking about Unsatisfied, maybe that wasn't happening and they might, but now they've made history. I know that your tape, the 1980 demo tape, it's in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Museum in Cleveland, right?

It is.

Are they Do you think they're ever going to get in the Hall of Fame? They got nom and would they care? Would they show up? I I mean, you know, they've been

2014 was their only nomination,

right? They nominated once. Um Tommy and I did a thing for my book there last year. Um and uh it turns out the two directors of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame are replacements fanatics. I mean, they were they were so kind to us and they gave us like a two-hour private tour of the of of the of the museum. Um

and uh couldn't have been nicer. Uh turned out the main guy um God, I'm going to blank on his name now. John.

No. No. from the museum.

Greg,

Greg, I can't think of his last name. Anyway, sweet as could be. Um, it turned out he used to road manage Ben Vaughn, who you opened for the replacement several times, so we were probably sharing dressing rooms, so I would have met him a whole lot, you know, many years ago.

Who would um induct the replacements besides you if because you know you you want to do it?

I would say Matt Dylan, but yes,

I was kind of

Jeremy could do it.

Yeah, I'll do it.

I'll do it. No, you should do it. I was kind of thinking actually Billy Joe Armstrong just because he, you know, is a name that the hall cares about already an inductee, but he performed with them at Coachella. Yep.

Uh when Paul was something was wrong with his back. I forget exactly what was going on. Paul was on a couch.

Yeah.

And Billy Joe is in the front, which I thought was very Replacementsesque.

Um but anyway, uh I know we've been do doing this for a while. I have a feeling all of you guys would just live for this conversation and keep going. But I want to make sure we get to your questions.

But I'm just going to lightning round because I was saying now people appreciate them on a wider scale. But they had a lot of accolades. So I'm going to I'm going to lightning round this and see what you agree. So Robert Kriscow said this album along with X's Wild Gift represented the peak of American indie rock. Do you agree? And if so, why?

I think it's right. I I would say right up there. I mean, um, you know, harder from my perspective. I mean, I don't want to be self- congratulatory about it, but, uh, but I think it's, um, that year, uh, it was one of the, yeah, one of the defining records of, of indie rock back then. Yeah, for sure.

It's also been called, uh, by some critics the greatest coming of age album of all time. Any thoughts about that? Because, yeah, I don't even I mean, obviously Tommy was 16, I guess, but they were all real young at the time. Yeah, 16 going on 17. But yeah, I mean I think um the one of the other things about this new package I'm really excited about is the liner notes written by this woman, Elizabeth Nelson, writer from the East Coast, who I think we were just so fortunate to get. And um um she basically uh you know puts them in the pantheon of uh like as she says in the liner notes um encourage you to read them. I mean they're really absolutely brilliant. If she doesn't get nominated for a Grammy, I'm going to be really shocked. Um but uh she said um that to her they most resemble the British art school bands, the Kinks and the Who. And I think that

they've been called the American Kinks.

I've read that.

Yeah. Yeah. So, and I don't think, you know, obviously the songs don't sound the same uh exactly, but I think there's something about it uh that they had the um you know, the the the um the big rock and roll part of their sound, but they also had the sensitivity that was underneath it and the ballads and and whatnot. So, I think that that was a really apt uh comparison and I loved reading that.

I'm so glad you mentioned Elizabeth Nelson because that was literally my next and last question just in terms of of how they've been historically perceived because I think this was really interesting. I'm going to quote her. So, she wrote in these liner notes, the Replacements were the ultimate rebuke to masculine punk and let it be at its core is a record for girls. which I love that because I think a lot of people think of the replacements or or Paul as being like a band for bros like a you know for dudes and you know I will admit it when I've gone to see Paul or or any of Tom and Tommy's project it is more men I mean yeah I mean it's more guys I mean so but there's a lot of girls that love the replacements and he Paul's lyrics could be very sensitive so I love the fact that she pointed out this was not just a band for dudes so tell you know I'd love your thoughts on that specific

well she was You know, we'd had uh Bob Merr had done the liner notes for uh all of the sets uh in this series that really began with the Maxwell's uh live record in 2014. And um you know, Bob Mar's fantastic. He wrote the book. I mean, talk about cementing a band's legacy. It was uh we know we have uh

he's up for a Grammy this year as well

again for Wilco. Yeah. Wilco liner notes. Uh but he um uh he he wanted to take a little break from, you know, he'd been working so much on the Replacements. I think he researched the the trouble boys biography almost 7 years. So um and he's looking for what his next book is going to be. He's also writing a lot for the New York Times and he wanted to take a break and um actually when we started the project I thought he was going to be part of it and I thought he would write some liner notes but I thought in addition to whatever Bob came up with uh I thought it would be interesting to bring in another voice and I thought about like David Frick would be a great choice just because I admire his writing so much and have for so many years. Um, but then I had been reading Elizabeth's work. It kept it kept popping up on my, you know, uh, inbox, uh, one way or another on Instagram or whatever. I would hear somebody raving about a review that was written. And I just I couldn't believe how good the writing was. And I think Bob Mary's a little bit more of a reporter. Um, and and I'm not that's not a negative comment, just he he writes more in that style. I mean, that's where he came from. He's from the newspaper background. Um, but Elizabeth has a thing that's um something a little more um uh I don't know what the word would be. Um um for one thing, she's just drop

dead funny. Um and uh but she's um just

a just a writing writing in a different style, a little more eloquent, a little more poetic maybe. Um and so I had uh I talked to Jason Jones, the guy who co-produced with me, uh and he looked into some of her stuff and he really liked it too. and he said, "Yeah, let's let's uh uh think about asking her to do it. Uh but we can't do it right now cuz we were still working out some of the business things with the band." So, it was uh a few months went by and I was really excited to get in touch with her. We' done a couple interviews and and so I knew her a little bit and um uh and I thought I want to, you know, I couldn't wait to invite her and I I knew she loved the replacements. She'd probably say yes. In the meantime, while I was waiting for Rhino to give me the green light to call her, the [ __ ] Bob Dylan team uh hired her to write liner notes for the 1974 Dylan band set last fall and I thought, "God damn it, they beat me to it." But anyway, um so I got in touch with her in May and um uh I asked I sent her an email, asked if she wanted to do it and it was probably I don't know 30 seconds or a minute. Uh I got back uh how many ways can I say yes in all caps.

Amazing. So um and she had a short we had a by that time we had a short deadline. I said I'll need him in about three weeks and if that's a deal breaker I understand. She said I know I want to do it and I can and she did.

And do you in terms of her pointing out that this band or maybe this record in particular had appeal to female listeners? Do you have any thoughts about that? I just that just as a woman obviously that stood out to me that she pointed that out. I thought that was very cool.

I mean I thought it made sense. Um, and I don't know that I'd really thought about it. I mean, I didn't uh I didn't ever really think they were a gu band necessarily. I just thought that they were a band for people who really paid attention to good songwriting and and and like to have a laugh, you know.

Since you mentioned Bob Dylan and obviously there was the Timothy Shalomé movie, you ever think there's going to be a replacements biopic? Has there been talks of one that you know of?

Well, there have been several. We uh the book has been optioned a couple times. was optioned by Josh Green who'd done uh The Fault in Our Stars. Um and he was determined. He promised uh he said, "This is my next movie." He had done an X-Men movie and he'd done a a 10 uh episode uh limited series with

Stephen King of the Stand. So, he had made a lot of money and said he was going to do his his uh uh you know, pet project and actually came to my house and and we talked a lot about it. Um but it just he couldn't get the you know uh the the the film companies uh you know to agree with him and come up with financing. I mean Cameron Crow came on board as a producer.

Um and anyway that went away and then the rights went back to Bob Mayor but now they've been uh optioned again by Finn Wolfhart.

Oh no way. He's very cool by the way. He has really good musical taste.

Uhhuh.

Oh. Who's going to play you?

Uh yeah. I I I I don't even want to think about it.

And maybe Yeah, maybe there won't be a manager in the movie. I don't know.

No, no, they cannot write you out of the story.

Um, so anyway, right now it looks like it's something that's very real. Uh, I was kind of glad when the uh idea of a biopic went away cuz I thought, how many good ones have you ever seen? I mean, I haven't seen many.

I've seen a few. Yeah.

Yeah. When they're bad, they're real. When they get it wrong, they get it really wrong.

And there's way more bad ones than good ones, if you ask me. And I think, you know, maybe who knows, but uh you know, I think Bob will Bob Mar will be involved in the screen play or whatever it is they uh the script and uh keep them on the straight and narrow. And I also the impression I get is that Finn Wolfhart is is a fanatic for the band and uh that he wants to make it real and true and uh so maybe it maybe that would be a maybe it would be a good one.

Maybe he can induct them into the Rock and Roll for that get that younger audience.

All right. Um thank you so much. This is me. I learn I thought I knew a lot about your career and about the replacements, but I learned a lot today. I hope you guys did as well. Do we have any questions from the audience? Raise your hand. Don't be shy.

Nope.

No.

Question.

Um I'm someone who became obsessed with them after reading Trouble Boys a few years ago. And so for people like me who are only discovering them now or anybody else obviously like the legend is that they weren't appreciated as much in their time. Do you know if they feel that they now they feel like they're getting their due lack of a better word satisfied or like how they're you know perceived or or you know um like people showing up at their big reunion concerts 10 years ago like did they feel that love?

Yeah, they definitely could. I mean, you know, the fact that they they were able to do um uh you know, to do late night TV and really nail it. I mean, that version of Alex Chilton just killed me. I I just couldn't believe that they were so good on on on TV. Um you know, was I was there when they did Saturday Night Live and although I thought that was good, it was a it was no fun, you know. I mean, it was really an ugly situation. Um we were really treated poorly. I mean, the Saturday Night Live people didn't know who they were. They treated us like [ __ ] to be honest. Um but uh um

so I think that uh in particular a couple funny things have happened recently like Chris Mars just came out of the uh out of the um retirement of uh doing interviews and decided he wanted to help. He just said, "Man, you guys have been working so hard on these reissues. They look so nice. I can really feel the love that you put into these and I guess I want to talk to the press." So, he actually did an interview with the Washington Post last Sunday and and it came out today and he said some really great things. And um Westerberg doesn't want to talk to the press and that's okay. That's his prerogative. Um but since Chris did, Tommy said originally he didn't want to talk to the press if Paul wasn't going to but if Chris is going to he said sure. So Tommy talked to him too and uh and it's a really a nice piece written by Jeff Edgars, longtime writer out there. So that was cool. Um, but I know that, you know, Tommy and I are in touch more than, um, the other guys. Uh, you know, talk don't talk to Paul much at all these days, but, um, and Chris and I are in touch, you know, every couple months or whatever. Um, uh, but Tommy and I are in touch a couple times a week and and we do a lot of work together still. And, uh, he's the one that's out there playing and he sees it everywhere he goes. I mean, he was really generous to me when I did I wrote a book a couple years ago and so we did a I did 20 cities around the country um just you know wherever I you know there was interest I would go do it and Tommy came to 10 of them with me and there would be times where we'd be sitting at the table waiting to sign books and people would be walking up you know with some replacements records to sign and I'd see you know like people shaking you know as they were you know about to talk to Tommy Stinson and it really you know that just for me um you know incredibly gratifying And I think he feels that too. And so, um, yeah, I think that they feel like they are recognized and and the fact that they're still so relevant.

I mean, we call it my wife and I, Jennifer and I, we talk, we call it the long arm of the replacements, you know. I mean, it's just, it just goes on and on and on and, uh, our our son is working in music now and he's, you know, he said every couple days some kind of door opens for him because they go, "Wow, you're you're related to the guy who did the replacement stuff." And it's like, "Wow." I mean, it's like, you know, we get kind of, we kind of laugh about it. But it's like you meet some new person and guess who their favorite band is? The Replacements. It's like holy cow, you know. So, um it's like they're more popular now than they were when they were together. But at the same time, you know, there was a, you know, we'd built up things to a point, you know, first couple years we didn't get out of town a whole lot, but once we really got out of town and on the road, you know, they the audiences found them.

And uh, and we, you know, it was, you know, if you were in Witchah and you were playing for 15 people who loved it, that was great. And a lot of times, you know, you'd be in, you know, uh, New York City and you'd have, uh, you know, 200 people there that were kind of sitting there going like this, you know, like, you know, pro prove it to me. Um, so I think that, you know, they had an audience all along and they appreciated it and, uh, um, so yeah, I mean, I think they have, uh, come around to the fact that, uh, they made an impact and it's a lasting one and and that's really something else. I mean, because doesn't happen to everybody.

Yeah. Any other?

Yeah. So, I think they came to California for the first time in ' 83.

Yep. Fall of 83. October of 83.

Did you chaper own that trip? And can you tell us about that experience?

Um, first first gig here was uh Club Lingerie. Um, and uh and then we kind of did some things where we we went up to the Bay Area and came back down. But I think it was Club Lingerie. Um, Music Machine, which was out on Pico, uh, sort of by the 10 there. Um, uh, just kind of by Mabes.

That was a great club. Uh, a picture in this, uh, set of them on stage at the Music Machine, as a matter of fact. Um uh and also a place right in Hollywood sort of by where Amoeba, the new Amoeba is uh uh it was the basement um at Selma

and Ivar I think. I think it was called the China Club for a while but this was

Grand R. It was Cath Grand um uh was

that a name name that they used in different clubs around town? No, that was that Cath Grand was was right there on on Selma and

I thought that was just a name that was mobile um because I remember it as the China Club at some point too. But anyway, we did a there was a show there um and it was pretty good. And then the booker invited us to come back and I think we did another show there on Thanksgiving night with social distortion. Um but the first one was with um uh Top Jimmy and his rhythm pigs.

No way.

Yeah. right by Restless by that building we worked together.

This was like half a block away from It was the China Club at that time.

Yeah. Yeah. Um and then and then uh trying to think of where else what other rooms uh

do you remember who was on the bill at the club lingerie show

I have it I have it in notes uh in a in a calendar an old calendar but I don't remember off the top of my head. There were two openers and there's a bootleg of it too that mentions who the openers are and I can't remember but yeah

oh yeah that was a a zuza we had a gig uh got booked in like a steakhouse or something. It was really weird. Um and uh and but we went out there and uh the I remember meeting the owner and it was like he looked like a marine, you know, he had like a buzz cut and he looked, you know, kind of chunky and I was just like, whoa, this guy doesn't look like a replacement uh friendly guy. And um they were aware that Tommy was um underage and they were giving me the you know, kind of reading me the um you know, the the the rules or whatever and I said, "He's not drinking um at that time." Uh, and so, uh, he hadn't really kicked into gear on the alcohol yet. And I said, "You don't need to worry about it." And, um, so we, you know, we thought, "Okay, well, you know, it was a fairly decent paying gig and we, you know, we thought the vibe of the place was all weird, but you know, what the heck?" And so they soundchecked and everything was fine.

And then, uh, the this, uh, owner had, um, uh, sent waitresses out to spy on Tommy. And so at some point uh one of the waitresses came up and grabbed the drink out of his hand and smelled it you know and it was like it was pop or water or whatever and uh you know Tommy was like embarrassed and then it happened a second time and uh and then all of a sudden Westerberg pulled me aside and he said I don't like these people here. They're not treating us very well and I want to leave. And I was like going oh oh boy okay well uh I I kind of wanted to leave too. So I was I said this was by this time the band was had had decided that they weren't going to you know tear down their equipment and so me and the two roadies had to do all that.

Um but I said to Paul I said um I said if you want to leave I'm with you. I agree these people are treating us badly and we got to go but you got to help tear down. We got to do it fast because this guy's not going to be happy. So we did. We just you know took everything apart fast. Filled up the van as it started to get around the club and it came to the guy's attention. and he was screaming and shouting. Um there were about maybe 30 or 40 people that had come out from LA. Um and uh and they were all gathered around in the in the parking lot and we got like a an ovation as we you know stormed out and drove away and they were standing there clapping while the owner was uh

Did you at least get steak dinners out of the deal?

We did. I don't think

you get to eat some steak.

I don't think so, man.

It might not have been a steakhouse. Just looked like one. any other

writerly song. Would you ever get any push back from the other members?

Oh, yeah.

Um, you know, there was a there's a song, in fact, another cool part of this package is uh there's a live recording on this uh 10-in uh from City Gardens in Trenton, uh, New Jersey that I was mentioning uh called You're Getting Married. Um, and it was a demo that he gave me in 1981. And, uh, it was actually, some of you might know it because we put it on as a bonus track on the Stink record when we did the CD reissues in 2008. But anyway, um, uh, that song when he gave it to me, I mean, he was giving me slipping me these demos that were uh, piano uh, demos and acoustic guitar demos that he'd record in his parents' basement. And um, basically I was swore into secrecy, especially don't tell Bob. Uh, cuz Bob's going to think I'm a [ __ ] you know.

And um so uh so uh but he would bring these things over a lot of times. Uh it would be in the middle of the night um or late at night. Uh and I remember him calling one time and and uh he said, "I just wrote this song. I sang the whole thing in falsetto. I got to get it out of the house right now or I'm going to I'm going to erase it." And uh so uh and he lived about 20 blocks away from me and I he must have run the whole way. Uh, and anyway, he gave me the tape and it was a song called You Hold Me in Suspension, which he's never given me permission to release on one of these sets, but oh my god, what a great song.

One of his greatest lyrics he sings, uh, You Hold Me in Suspension. Um, he goes, "All paint chips and all love fades."

Why no permission to release

u just because I think it's just one that's a little too personal for him.

So, um, anyway, uh, um, when you're

getting married came along, that was one that just lit me up. I I was actually a little bit frightened when I heard the song because I thought it was so great. I thought, "How does a [ __ ] 19-year-old kid write something like this?" It had to have been about a real person. Again, I never asked him. Um, but anyway, so those were the kinds of things that were happening. And I remember we tried um because I loved the song so much, I kept bringing it up to Paul like we, you know, we we snuck uh If only you were lonely on the B side of I'm in trouble of the 45 and and that worked well. So I said, you know, hey, in the right spot, you know, one of your solo songs could be cool. You know, show how, you know, how the breadth of of of, you know, your writing ability.

So, um, but anyway, so by the time we were doing Hoot Nanny out in the warehouse in North Minneapolis, um, we, uh, they tried, uh, you're getting married. And it was one of the times very specifically that I remember exactly what you're asking about because Bob purposely played badly. Um, and then when it was over, I remember him. In fact, it might even be on tape. He said, "Save that for your solo album, Paul. That ain't the replacements."

Yeah, cuz Bob was the Bob wanted to rock, you know. And I get it. I did, too.

Um, how many more questions do you want to take?

I can take if there's

All right, we'll just keep going over here.

Hey, Mike.

Yeah. Hey, Peter. Um, I just wanted to chime in about Peter being the fifth replacement. I think it's a very apt uh thing for him. And you know, many people think it's because they were self-destructive and he held them together, but I see it differently. I I was lucky enough to be a college student uh in Minneapolis in the early 80s and saw the replacements quite a few times and they just got so disheartened because every time they played they would play after a really good review and they would play in a place that had about this many fans uh for three years and I I think that was so tough on them and that's why the unsatisfied and even maybe favorite thing. Uh but Peter he had to give them pep talks I imagine just you know because he believed in them they would never have survived and it just it wasn't their drinking it was just that you know it was a tough era that those early uh ' 80s lack of recognition.

Yeah just University of Minnesota would not play them on their radio station. The whole college radio scene had not really started. Um, so he he definitely was the the fifth replacement and uh and also I mean people don't give him much credit for holding that band together.

That's very kind of you and let me tell you Mike Hager [applause] that's very very nice of you to say and I appreciate that. Uh Mike Hager was writing for the Minnesota Daily, the A&E section, uh and actually went uh Medicine New York the very first time we went to New York in April of 83 and uh wrote a cover story for the Minnesota Daily and I still have it. Uh the headline was Native Sons Rise in the East.

That was a great title.

I didn't write the title.

Yeah, it's a good but you wrote the article and that's what it meant.

But it was a great story and Mike Mike's a great writer and a great a great man.

Yeah. Applause for you. Do I I but I want to piggyback on to that question real quick.

Do you have memories of these pep talks that you gave? Did you do that?

Well, I mean,

you're like, come on, boys.

I I had uh I had just uh unfailing belief in their greatness. I mean, I didn't It's not anything like I I planned it. I mean, it was just I couldn't help it. I just thought you you know, and and it wasn't like

Did you have to talk them out a breaking up or anything like that?

No, it was I mean, I think that they just get frustrated. I mean, no, they wanted to be a band and and they and they kind of grew into this uh you know, you know, that fourth record for Twin Tone. I mean, I think that's another thing Elizabeth Nelson says in the liner note. She said they were they were so good at that time it was impossible for them. She said it was uh I think she said it would be like the Rolling Stones in 1970, they could not have made a bad album. And um so, you know, that's just uh that's kind of the direction they were going. And and uh I I I mean I as far as I think Mike is being you know uh I think he's what he said is there's truth there but it was also I I didn't like sit there and consciously do pep talks. It was just like you know I I I mean yeah I mean they just they we we I would encourage them and uh you know they they uh trusted me. So

yes.

Yeah. I just think the scene has kind of definitely changed on the note of like college radio. I when I was managing my station, my co-manager, his show was called Back to the Dial. My friend would sell like painted I hate music shirts to our her buddies. And um I just I was wondering if you think there's something kind of like in, you know, this this kind of college age, early 20s scene that is like is it more of a moment in kind of music that is drawing people my age like kind of back to their sound and

um or is it is it more of like a moment in kind of like culture that that something that their music was speaking to?

I'm not sure I can answer that. I mean, I just think that there's a um there's a

a purity to what they did in a way that was uh you know, they didn't they didn't um uh you know, play the game. They didn't uh you know, kiss people's ass and the record labels. In fact, they did quite the opposite. And uh and I think that that's that's part of what gives them uh you know makes people interested in them still. I don't know. I don't know. Who knows how that happens. It's like that question, you know, they asked John Lennon many years ago about like uh to what do you attribute your success? And he said, well, if we knew, we'd form another group and be managers. I mean, I don't I think it's that X factor thing.

Who knows, you know?

Yeah.

On those long drives, D would you say would be some of the most artists that What's a what?

Who who would you say some were some of the more surprising artists

you listen to on those road

in the van?

Uh I mean well for one thing uh I did a lot of the late night driving and Westerberg would always ride shotgun and he was a button pusher on the radio. He loved just you know as you as you're driving and one station fades and another one comes in he was looking for that m you know the song that he knew that he wanted to hear or the song he didn't know that he loved. Um so that was always really fun. What kind of stations would he gravitate toward?

He loved top 40 radio back, you know, there was still a top 40 back then. You know, he he was uh he liked commercial music in a lot of ways and, you know, he was a huge, you know, Bad Company fan or whatever. Um, you know, we used, that was our argument. I used to say Paul McCartney was the greatest singer of all time. He'd say, "No, it's Paul Rogers." Um but uh but like I mean I'm one one particular memory I have that I really treasure was uh we had been in some I think we'd been in DC and a friend of mine in DC had taped the new Robin Hitchcock album for us on cassette and said you know this came out while you've been traveling. I put on cassette for you thought you might want to listen to it and it was I often dream of trains. I don't know if you know that one but great [ __ ] record and acoustic record and so we played that. Everybody else was asleep and and I think we put it on and we listened to the whole thing with barely talking, just the two of us and uh and when it was over, I remember Paul going, "Well, Robin's got another pop monster on his hands, you know, cuz it was not a a commercial record at all." So, that was a favorite. But um that was a one that we a great one that I remember listening to in the van. The other thing, you know, the sort of the normal answer to that is um the two bands that we could play at any time in the van that no one would complain about were NRBQ and Big Star.

So they were that was that they were unanimous. Everybody everybody loved those. And then you know Bob would want to play you know you know Bob Bob actually never really wanted to play anything. He just sat in the back and you know drank beer. But um but you know Tommy would have squeeze you know tapes or whatever. He loved squeeze and you know Paul had a live Jerry Lee Lewis from Germany you know that he loved and he played that all the time. And um I actually one great van experience I remember was um as we were uh in between Let It Be and Tim uh we were driving along and I had gotten a tape from somebody again on the road of uh Neil Young bootleg um live in Germany and he does a version of the song Flying on the Ground is Wrong from the first Buffalo Springfield record and he introduced it in a kind of a funny way.

He said uh here's a song I wrote for the Buffalo Springfield but they wouldn't let me sing it. I don't know why they wouldn't let me sing it. Uh, he said, "Here's my version." And he did it and it's beautiful. One of my favorite songs when Richie Fury sang it on the Buffalo Springfield record. But Neil singing it was like, "Wow." It just hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm listening to it on the on the uh Walkman and when it was over, I just stopped it. I rewinded to the beginning and I put the headphones on Paul and I said, "You got to listen to this." And he listened to it and a lot of times I'd play him stuff and he didn't like it. Ah, that's [ __ ] Or whatever. This one I could sort of see his body language that he was really connecting. Couple weeks later, we're back in Minneapolis. I went over to his place one afternoon, said, "What have you been doing?" He said, "Well, I just wrote uh what's going to be your favorite song on the new album." And I was like, "Oh, I'll be the judge of that." And he sat there on his uh couch and played me a Swing and Party for the first time. And that was um it's basically the melody of Flying on the Ground is Wrong uh Turned Inside Out.

And he, you know, stole it uh uh in a sneaky way for copyright purposes.

Any other questions? All right. I do believe we have some giveaways. Frank, I'm going to ask for your help. The lovely Frank behind the counter. So, we're giving away What are we giving away?

Posters right there.

Posters here for just anyone to grab. But we have like some limited things.

By the way, this was taken in an elevator at Kaufman Union. Speaking of University of Minnesota.

Very cool. So, we have what? Three t-shirts. Three t-shirts and one.

And how are we doing this? [laughter]

Are we We We didn't do raffles, did we?

Do you want to do a raffle real quick?

Or do you want to do a trivia contest that Peter can conduct?

Okay, Peter, come on. You know, someone in here. We need how many? Four questions.

I I don't know trivia stuff. I'm not I'm not a good person to ask that,

right? I don't I don't want to even be dare. No pun intended.